this country is in denial about how all the goverment bigwigs are in cahoots with all the big business leaders. They are one and the same.


read up on this:
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Arms Buildup Enriches Firm Staffed by Big Guns
Defense: Ex-president and other elites are behind weapon-boosting Carlyle Group.
By MARK FINEMAN Times Staff Writer January 10 2002

WASHINGTON -- Even by Washington standards, the Carlyle Group has some serious clout.

President George W. Bush's father works for Carlyle; so does former Defense Secretary Frank C. Carlucci, whose close friend Donald H. Rumsfeld now runs the Pentagon; and so does a stellar cast of retired generals and Cabinet secretaries, including former Secretary of State James A. Baker III.

And even by Wall Street standards, the Carlyle Group has some serious money: $12.5 billion in investments at last count. The Washington-based private equity firm, which advises and invests for wealthy clients and institutions, has shown returns of more than 34% through the last decade, particularly through timely defense and aerospace investments.

So when President Bush declared war on terrorism in September, few were better poised than Carlyle to know how and when to make money.

On a single day last month, Carlyle earned $237 million selling shares in United Defense Industries, the Army's fifth-largest contractor. The stock offering was well timed: Carlyle officials say they decided to take the company public only after the Sept. 11 attacks. The stock sale cashed in on increased congressional support for hefty defense spending, including one of United Defense's cornerstone weapon programs.

Carlyle's windfall is a result of astute business decisions, excellent connections, strategic lobbying, good timing and a bit of luck. It is also a prime example of how defense contractors got well in a hurry after the Sept. 11 attacks, in a year when the Bush administration already was planning steep hikes in defense spending.

For several years in the late 1990s, United Defense's Crusader Advanced Field Artillery System--a massive high-tech cannon that could fire faster and with more impact than any before it--was in trouble at the Pentagon. The system clashed with the vision many military planners and analysts have for a lighter, more mobile Army. And its high price tag--originally $20 billion--endangered it in times of tight defense budgets.

But the suicide attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center freed up tens of billions of dollars in new defense spending. United Defense already had modified the Crusader, making it 20 tons lighter. And the Army had cut its order by more than half to make it more palatable to budget cutters.

On Sept. 26, the Army signed a $665-million modified contract with United Defense through April 2003 to complete the Crusader's development phase. In October, the company listed the Crusader, and the attacks themselves, as selling points for its stock offering.

Then Congress fully funded the system in the defense authorization bill that passed the House and Senate on Dec. 13, the day before Carlyle's stock sale. And President Bush is scheduled to open the funding spigot today, when he signs a defense appropriation bill that includes $487.3 million for the Crusader in 2002.

The ties that bind the president's family and close advisors to Carlyle have helped draw the confidence of its investors--and the criticism of outsiders.

"It's the first time the president of the United States' father is on the payroll of one of the largest U.S. defense contractors," said Charles Lewis, director of the Center for Public Policy and one of Carlyle's most ardent critics.

"Between Baker and Carlucci, not to mention dear old dad, the relationship of the president with this particular company is as tight and close as, well, anyone can imagine."

Carlyle officials bristle at such talk. They described their recent stock sale as just plain good business that benefited a wide array of investors, including pension funds like those of California's state employees.

Carlyle spokesman Chris Ullman said that neither the company nor its managers, directors and advisors have ever personally lobbied for the Crusader or other government contracts now in the hands of United Defense and other Carlyle subsidiaries and investments.

Of Carlucci, Carlyle's board chairman, and his friendship with the current Defense secretary, Ullman said: "I assure you he doesn't lobby. That's the last thing he'd do. You'd have to know Carlucci to know he'd never do that, and you'd have to know Rumsfeld to know it wouldn't matter."

But even if Carlyle and Carlucci don't lobby, their subsidiaries and majority-owned companies do. And documents on file with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Federal Election Commission, the Defense Department and Congress show that they do so heavily, strategically and persistently.

Midway Between White House, Congress

By any standard, the Carlyle Group has the right address. Its suite of offices are on Pennsylvania Avenue midway between the White House and Congress--a 15-minute walk to each.

It was founded as a small private-equity firm in 1987 by David M. Rubenstein, a young lawyer who had worked as an aide in Jimmy Carter's White House, and two investment specialists. They named the company after their favorite hotel in New York and started out with a modest portfolio of $100 million.

In 1989, Carlucci retired as Ronald Reagan's Defense secretary and joined Carlyle. Soon after, the company aggressively went after defense and aerospace investments, a specialty for Carlucci and the other former government officials who followed him into Carlyle.

Their investment strategies paid off, not only in defense acquisitions and sales but also in a wide array of corporations. Carlyle's portfolio quickly grew into the billions of dollars as pension funds and wealthy businessmen and families, including royal sheiks in the Persian Gulf, invested with the firm.

As its reputation grew, so did the group's star-studded management roster. It added former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. John M. Shalikashvili; Arthur Levitt, the long-serving former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission; former British Prime Minister John Major; former Secretary of State Baker; and former President Bush (Carlyle officers say the elder Bush's principal role is as "a draw": delivering speeches at Carlyle-sponsored events).

Last February, the California Public Employees' Retirement System announced it was investing $425 million in "a strategic partnership" with Carlyle. Even the company owned by Osama bin Laden's estranged billionaire family in Saudi Arabia was among Carlyle's clients--a mere $2-million investment that Carlyle said it bought out after Sept. 11 "for image reasons," Ullman said. He declined to say whether the Bin Ladens made a profit.

Ullman downplayed Carlyle's defense connections, saying that today less than 10% of its $12.5-billion portfolio is in defense, an additional 15% percent in commercial aerospace, and the rest in real estate, health care, telecommunications and consumer industries.

Only 15 of Carlyle's 500 employees are former government officials, Ullman said. Most of the rest are investment professionals working in 24 offices scattered across the globe.

Carlyle bought Arlington, Va.-based United Defense LP in October of 1997 for $850 million.

At the time, the company had contracts for the Army's main fleet of armored infantry vehicles, an automated naval gun system and a Navy missile-launching system. Among its potentially most lucrative contracts was the one for the next generation of high-tech Army battlefield artillery.

Still, the company was losing money. The year after Carlyle bought it, United Defense lost $122 million on $1.2 billion in revenue. But under Carlyle's ownership, United Defense turned around; last year, it reported a net profit of $18.8 million.

Critical to that turnaround was the future of the Crusader artillery system.

United Defense had started work on the Crusader in 1994. It is a self-propelled 155-millimeter howitzer that fires ammunition the size of scuba tanks farther, faster and more accurately than ever imagined, with the killing power of 10 rounds per minute.

The Crusader reloads automatically from an armored sister vehicle, and it uses millions of lines of computer code and battlefield intelligence to pinpoint and strike enemy positions as far as 25 miles away.

The system was, and is, considered the most advanced and lethal artillery on the globe.

It's also the heaviest. At 110 tons, the Crusader was deemed far too heavy for the rapidly deployable Army that will be needed to fight the sudden and remote conflicts America will face, according to a Pentagon-appointed National Defense Panel that sharply criticized the Crusader in December 1997.

That report fed into what is now the lead edge in post-Cold War Pentagon planning: To transform the U.S. armed forces into a slim, trim fighting force that can move halfway around the globe in a matter of hours and fight in conditions like the Afghan campaign.

And the Crusader, the panel concluded, was anything but mobile.

"Crusader was the gleam in somebody's eye in the later years of the Cold War," said Andrew Krepinevich, executive director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington and a member of the 1997 Defense Panel.

But Krepinevich, who has testified against the Crusader on Capitol Hill in the years since that report, added: "For something so heavy and hard to move as Crusader, it certainly has been a hard target to hit on the Hill. They've done a remarkable job in keeping it alive."

Here's how:

About the time the Carlyle Group bought United Defense, the United Defense LP Employees Political Action Committee registered with the Federal Election Commission. Since then, that committee has contributed more than $300,000 to several dozen legislators who have been key supporters of the Crusader and other Pentagon weapon systems that United Defense supplies.

In many cases, the legislators who received the money have other interests in pushing United Defense's agenda: jobs and commerce in their home states or districts.

Oklahoma Republican Rep. J.C. Watts Jr., for example, has been one of the Crusader's staunchest supporters. Watts' district includes the Crusader's Comanche County assembly and testing facility. Watts also has received $7,000 in contributions from the United Defense PAC.

Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) has received $10,000 from the same PAC. Pennsylvania is home to a United Defense plant in York. In October, he praised the Senate's passage of an early version of the defense authorization bill because it included $487 million for Crusader in 2002.

And Rodney P. Frelinghuysen, a GOP member of the House Appropriations Committee, was among the Crusader's pioneering proponents, dating back to the system's early development at the Picatinny Arsenal in Frelinghuysen's New Jersey district. The company's PAC has contributed $4,500 to his campaigns.

Such contributions are business as usual in the industry; larger defense contractors lavish even greater sums on their congressional supporters, FEC records show. Carlyle denies it played any role in creating United Defense's PAC.

United Defense spokesman Doug Coffey said the contributions are "not anything that would be out of the norm." The PAC's creation, he said, was timed not to the Crusader project but to the fact that United Defense became an independent corporation allowed to make such contributions only after Carlyle bought it.

"The contributions are primarily made to congressional members in areas where we have facilities," Coffey said. "And the total amount is nothing very extraordinary in the defense industry."

In addition to making its case on Capitol Hill, United Defense sought to answer Pentagon worries. The company redesigned the Crusader--and in record time. Its engineers took 20 tons off the system's weight, making it light enough to rapidly deploy two of them on a C-17 transport aircraft.

The Army also cut its order to 480 from more than 1,100 Crusader systems, reducing the program's overall cost to a projected $11 billion. And ever since, a succession of Army chiefs of staff have argued passionately for the program as an essential, leading-edge tool for its battlefield readiness in the 21st century.

Some independent analysts are impressed. John Pike, who runs the defense watchdog group GlobalSecurity.com, said he believes the Army will need an advanced artillery system, which he called "the king of battle, the thing that kills half the enemy."

But Krepinevich and others remain unconvinced. Given that future conflicts more likely will resemble Afghanistan than the Gulf War, he said: "over time, Crusader becomes less and less attractive. . . . Nobody wants to fight the American military out in the open anyway."

Krepinevich concluded that the system nonetheless has survived because "there's a high level of support by United Defense, No. 1; No. 2, by the [congressional] members whose constituents are affected by the health of United Defense. Then, you've got the Army. This kind of artillery system pacifies the traditional culture of the Army while it is transitioning to a lighter, more modern force.

"And there simply isn't the same kind of intensity on Capitol Hill to cancel projects like Crusader, especially in times of bigger defense budgets."

Carlyle Officials Seek to Sell United Defense

Carlyle officials say their strategy is to keep companies for three to five years and then sell them. Defense industry sources said Carlyle was trying to market United Defense as early as a year ago but had no takers. Carlyle officials confirm they were looking for an "exit strategy" from their ownership of United Defense.

"They basically didn't have options," said Stuart McCutchan, who edits the Virginia-based Defense Mergers & Acquisitions newsletter.

"What has happened in the last two or three months has given them an option. The public becomes the buyer."

And Carlyle's timing was impeccable.

First came the Bush administration's proposed 2002 defense budget. The document landed in Congress in June 2001, and it included an 11% hike in defense spending, including full funding for the Crusader.

Bolstered by the good news and the prospects for the company, Carlyle took its first dividends from United Defense on Aug. 13: $289.7 million.

Twenty-nine days later, the two hijacked airliners slammed into the World Trade Center towers, while another hit the Pentagon.

President Bush declared war on terrorism, defense industry stocks were suddenly hot and, just five weeks later, Carlyle was ready to take United Defense Industries public.

On Oct. 22, United Defense filed its stock-offering prospectus with the SEC.

"The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, have generated strong Congressional support for increased defense spending," the prospectus declared. "We believe that domestic and international defense spending will grow over the next several years as a result of an increased focus on national security by the U.S. government and its allies."

A month later, Carlyle took $92 million more in dividends out of United Defense.

Then, on Dec. 13, the Defense Authorization Bill passed both the House and Senate, with full funding for the Crusader, just one day before United Defense went public. United Defense's president and chief executive, Thomas Rabaut, even got invited to ring the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange that day.

Carlyle Managing Director Allan Holt explained: "The decision to take United Defense public was a function of the performance of the company, the outlook for its programs in the defense budget and the receptiveness of the market to defense equity offerings.

"We have an obligation to try to achieve the best returns for our investors."

And they did.

By the closing bell, Carlyle, which still controls 54% of United Defense, had sold more than 11 million of its shares in the company for a total of $237 million. United Defense raised an additional $163 million from the sale of about 9 million new shares.

On Wednesday, the company's stock, which Carlyle and United Defense opened at $19 a share Dec. 14, was trading for nearly $21.

you Bush supporters need to ask this jerk wad, why a man who was elected by White male voters opposed to gun control is going to sign the clinton feinstein gun control renewal bill, until this handy war he was going down because of his inability to stop his elite friends at enron and others from robbing the country blind.
this clown is proposing laws that if clinton had done it you would have been armed in the streets wake up fools, it does not take a genius to criticize bill clinton, this is now this is reality, the man is a front boy for the Isreali occupation forces running this place.

what an angry forum! gotta love it

let me spell out the actual middle

the republicrats up to their ass in shares of stock in defence and oil companies and owing their 'boys' for funding the ride, made some wars. how far the conspiracy goes back before sept 11th excuse would disgust all but a historian like me, to me, surprise surprise, emperors excuse conquest news at 11.
nothing new under the sun.

fact 2 the anti war movement had no chance at stopping the war, feeling like a failure for stopping a war when that has NEVER worked in history. But rest assured it had an effect, how much of one, will ultimately have to be on a wait and see basis. but in Vietnam, protests shortened the war, in Iraq it forced a lay in of a much more careful and surgical military action, than would have occurred if the protests hadn't happened, i would estimate the anti-war protests, saved at least 1 million wounded and dead, from even happening.

Now we see how much nation building is needed for the Iraqis to have a better life, for our efforts, which i remind you, were not conducted to make lives better for Iraqis, that dialogue, started when the protesters, in their incredible, pre-war numbers, made it politically expedient to add.
we shall see how this puppet follows through, i smell a spin job coming, watch the news.

Look out syria, hell, saudi arabia, feels the fear, look how public and ardent they are getting, especially with that anti west assault in the papers today.

Republicans you are right, clinton, really was more of the same, but you are way off, when you argue that the republican representative is looking out for you, get real! what planet do you live on? on earth the rulers are only out for themselves and the greed agendas of their money backers. which historically are arms manufacturers, utilitys, mineral resource explioters (oil, coal, metals, gems)
lumber, big agriculture, pharmecuticals, transportation, oh and lately telecommunications, the media is their whores, for the big ad bucks, thats what all those car commercials are about fools, like a truck commercial gets you spending 30G any faster than you already can.

did i forget banks?

heh

let me tell u all this. Bush screwed up the planet and it is never gonna be the same. we had the opportunity after 9/11 to be the voice of reason, but we chose the voice of greed, aggression, and evil. The axis of evil is not north korea. It is Bush, Chaingang chainey and Rummsfart.

That is right! Nothing ever justifies wars.American imperialist must alway stick noses in business not of there own.Iraq has being a great country forever and all times! Leave other peoples along and let them fight for themselfs i say.We need not worry for whole world.We can live and be free here and let other peoples fend fopr selfs i say!Bush only want our oil;s and richnesses.People of iraq never had life like here,so why we need free ?They do not need it,and Saddam is great ruler who is good to every of his peoples.I stand with demcrats of america.Let Saddam rule as he please!

WANTED WHITEFISH
FOR QUESTIONING
ON BUSH'S
ILLEGAL ENTRY INTO
IRAQ.

REWARD.

JUST IN.
we have reason to believe
he may be in disguise
and going under an Alias.
If seen do not approach
known to be foul mouthed and violent.
Last pictures
from cctv.

If Iraq was in such a state that we had to invade with no proof they had weapons of mass descruction WHY have we not invaded KOREA ???? We know for a FACT the weapons they have. We know for a FACT the atrocities against the people. BUT THEY HAVE NO OIL !!!!!

THE CREATION
(Special Forces Version)


And the Lord spoke forth unto the heavens and said, "let there be Airborne." The earth did tremble and quake and the waters did rise up and the clouds did part and there came forth a multitude of parachutes that filled the sky. God looked down and saw this was good. And they were good; they were AIRBORNE.

God then spake forth unto the land and said: "Let there be Rangers." And all at once the day turned into darkness, and the winds did howl, and mountains crumbled into the sea, and the great rocks did part, and there sprang forth a horde of Mephistopheles' disciples wearing Ranger tabs and carrying all sorts of deadly weapons. God looked down and saw that this was bad. And they were bad; they were RANGERS.

Then God spoke forth thrice, unto the sky, the earth, and the sea, and said: "Let there be Special Forces." Lightning did flash and echo across the sky. Mountains spewed molten rock and rained fire upon the land. Tidal waves surged against the shore. Despair, disorder and turmoil did prevail. Forthwith, there did appear a band of twelve extraordinary men. A few came from beneath the waves; others jumped from the sky; and more still stalked silently from the dense forests. Each one was in camouflage battle dress, wearing a Green Beret. Working together, they brought peace unto the land. God looked down and saw that this was amazing. And they were amazing; they were SPECIAL FORCES.

Besides himself, God now spake forth again and commanded: "Let all ye that be weak in mind and body, arise and go forth." And lo, from the abyss they crawled forward with indecision and limped weakly upon the earth. God looked down and shook His head, for this was pathetic. And they were pathetic; they were LEGS.

After seeing that nearly all was good, GOD was not yet satisfied. How will My Purveyors of Destruction reach their far distant lands? "And behold a pale horse; and his name that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed him. And power was given unto them...to kill with the sword; and with hunger; and with death; and with the beasts of the earth. "I shall call him Night Stalker. He shall be swift, sure, and above all, deadly with his accuracy". Now all will truly fear the dark, as a child fears the Demon in his dreams. GOD looked down and saw that this was devastating - And they were devastating - they were Night Stalkers.

quote:

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Originally posted by El-Al Bokhaar:

quote:

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Originally posted by redherron:
Still no Weapons of Mass destruction found in IRAQ.

So, what was that war and all the carnage all about? It was supposed to be about finding all the WMD. Don't you think we should be more positive about the existence of this stuff before we blow up a country and its people?...yaaaaa,finally someone who tells it like it is!....who cares aboutt Saddam killing all his own people?They are his people,and we americans don't need to worry about how other's are treated! We have it made here,and our parents can make enough to send us to great schools,and we can learn things like how much better off we are than other people.We shouldn't have to worry if some sicko leader on the other side of the world kills and tortures his own people routinely for disagreeing,or even looking at him the wrong way.I am sure it wasn't easy for him to get to where he is! If Bush type people had stopped him,where would he be now.I mean really...who cares about the rest of the world? We can protest,march,carry cute little signs and everything they can't right?Screw 'em is what i say...those people aren't worth 'liberating anyway'....Liberals should be proud of thereselves for marching and protesting,because they aren't stupid enough to go and fight for there country when they can let someone else do it for them.The real nuts are the guys who fight for us liberals while we badmouth what they fought for to make it so we could badmouth,and run our presidents down.So...who is the idiot here anayway,huh?DUH!HAHAHAHAHA

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I agree!

So you agree Hilerey? what a weirdo you are!

Well now, I may just cry over that one.

hmm heated thread. I do not think that the so called "war on terror" was just or right in any way and i do believe that Americans have created more suffering than they have prevented. My heart goes out to the Iraqi women and children who suffer at the hands of American's and fellow Iraqi's. Social injustice is never acceptable under any circumstances. we are all one in the same, what difference is there between us? really? Perhaps Iraqi's live in a different world, perhaps there skin is a bit darker or lighter, but can you really look into the eyes of an innocent child and say sorry your not worth it because your Iraqi?????? you don't deserve a life without suffering. In fact it makes me angry that anyone would think like that. War is not the answer, it can never bring peace. I realize that but don't be so callous. They are people too they deserve to live life free of torture and opression just as you and i do. It is not a question of American librities but of basic human rights those things that we are entitled to from birth which cross the barriers of gender,sex,and race.

This war has cost more lives than it is worth, innocent boys and men are dying because of that quack that is president

I don't understand some people. They say they hate Bush and he's all wrong. Do they really hate Bush or is it they hate the good he stands for? He is not the only one who thought there was Weapons of Mass Destruction, John Kerry even said at one time he thought so. I don't like the boys getting killed either, but remember most of them enlisted. It wasn't like that back in Viet Nam time most were drafted and we lost over 53,000 and who was in office at that time? People wake up. Times are just as good as then people are building new homes everywhere and buying anything they seem to want. Yes gas is high right now. Instead of complaining all the time. Try praying.... I don't see anyone standing in soup lines right now. The president is trying to keep the US safe. If Clinton had took Bin Laden when he was offered to him not once, not twice, but 3 times Sept 11th may not have happened, because I believe he was the culprit behind it all. Lets put the blame where it lies. I hope no one gets offended at this, but I truely believe Pres Bush is trying. May God Bless....