quote:

Originally posted by May Flower:

quote:

Vaccaro Rottweilers
BBC Senior Member


Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1137

Location: Canada
Posted: Jul 09, 2006 7:46pm Post subject:

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No Dawn, you're the one that wants to get in a pissing match here, not me... Nobody else said lets see a picture of you're dog so we can put it down, and ya know that's why you wanted me to post a picture of my puppy, because you didn't even point out onething good about him, and only went right for what you think are his bad points..

I was asking about weak pastern's not what everybody thought was right or wrong about the conformation on my dog.. As much as you hate to admit it, you are just like RR when it comes to degrading people's dogs..

And he is 4 months old, he is still a baby for God Sakes and still has alot of maturing to do.. And as I already stated, I know my lines and know what my dogs mature into as adults.. That is the good points of linebreeding on a certain dog in a pedigree, ya always know what you're pups are going to mature into.. I refuse to throw to marble pedigree's together when breeding and hope for the best in what I am going to produce..

I know the faults in my dogs, and as I said before, that's why my bitches are getting bred to a male (Tor) that will improve the weak points I am producing in my pups.

You've been posting for years that you are going to breed to Tor. Never happened-never will.

quote:

Originally posted by May Flower:

quote:

Vaccaro Rottweilers
BBC Senior Member


Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1137

Location: Canada
Posted: Jul 09, 2006 7:46pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No Dawn, you're the one that wants to get in a pissing match here, not me... Nobody else said lets see a picture of you're dog so we can put it down, and ya know that's why you wanted me to post a picture of my puppy, because you didn't even point out onething good about him, and only went right for what you think are his bad points..

I was asking about weak pastern's not what everybody thought was right or wrong about the conformation on my dog.. As much as you hate to admit it, you are just like RR when it comes to degrading people's dogs..

And he is 4 months old, he is still a baby for God Sakes and still has alot of maturing to do.. And as I already stated, I know my lines and know what my dogs mature into as adults.. That is the good points of linebreeding on a certain dog in a pedigree, ya always know what you're pups are going to mature into.. I refuse to throw to marble pedigree's together when breeding and hope for the best in what I am going to produce..

I know the faults in my dogs, and as I said before, that's why my bitches are getting bred to a male (Tor) that will improve the weak points I am producing in my pups.

You've been posting for years that you are going to breed to Tor. Never happened-never will.

quote:

Originally posted by Ratlady:
Yeah, this is obviously a crappy quality breeder, but then again this person is not the best example of a puppy BUYER either.

I'm sorry, Chrestina ... while ignorance and crude language (on your website) may not be against the law they don't really help your cause either.

I am not saying your little girl is quality bred (because from her parents/pedigree anyone who knows about the breed could tell you she is NOT) or that she was not sick, or that these things did not happen. Only you and the crappy backyard breeder you got her from know exactly what transpired. I am simply saying you do need to take at least SOME of the responsibility for not doing a better job at choosing a quality breeder and a well bred Chihuahua. (I won't comment on the back and forth, alleged e-mails, posts, craziness, etc. between you two as that is he said/she said.)

WHY didn't you DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you shelled out $850 on a puppy? Anybody who had done so would be able to tell this was not a good breeder.

First, there is no such thing as a Teacup Chihuahua. But even if for argument's sake that's just a term thrown around by the ignorant (which would still make this not a quality breeder) and not just a gimmick to charge more money for poor quality puppies, there are plenty of other "red flags" about this breeder that should have also tipped you off as well.

GOOD breeders gladly share pedigree information and pictures of parents with prospective buyers. That you did not demand more information about your puppy is on YOU. (E.g., you seem "shocked" to learn the sire to your puppy is a merle ... WHY didn't you already know what the parents looked like?)

GOOD breeders provide WRITTEN health/genetic guarantees. That you did not demand this from the breeder you chose is again on YOU.

WHY ON EARTH would you give an additional $600 to this breeder when you went to pick up the puppy if as you say you had bad feelings about her and thought you were not going to get your paperwork?

Also, your statement merles are not purebred and that this is why she registers with CKC is utter nonsense. A merle Chi Champion related to my foundation merle Chi went to WESTMINSTER this year! The point is there are bad breeders of both merle AND non merle Chihuahuas and one has nothing to do with the other. There are also both good AND bad AKC breeders. However, CKC is NOT a registry used by serious breeders and that has nothing whatsoever to do with merle.

About Coccidiosis, it is a condition caused by an overgrowth of Coccidia, protozoans which CAN be carried (and spread) by birds, mice, flies, crickets, etc., so technically any dog that spends any amount of time outside (esp. in the country) CAN be exposed mechanically and it doesn't necessarily mean they are kept in unsanitary conditions. (This is one reason why some breeders treat ADULTS prophylactically.) While Coccidia generally cause no problems in adult dogs an overgrowth can cause problems esp. in puppies who may simply have gotten it from their mother who had no symptoms (and she could have gotten it by simply licking bird poop - gross, I know, but yes dogs do gross things, even adorable Chihuahuas!). Stress can also bring on Coccidiosis - such as the stress of going to a new home. That your puppy had this condition two days after you purchased her does not PROVE she had symptoms of it at the time you bought her or that she was brought up in "terrible" conditions - although that sadly would not surprise me, I'm just saying it doesn't prove what you are claiming on your website about how she was raised. Neither does the fact she had an ear infection 1-1/2 weeks AFTER you got her. The poor quality of her breeder tho is fairly obvious. (Wouldn't the fact that in her ad she offers only a THREE MONTH genetic guarantee tip you off?)

And, about you saying your girl is a merle, have you had her DNA tested for the presence of the merle gene? Because IN THE PICTURES anyway she looks like she MAY have brindle markings. The only way to know is the DNA test. She certainly isn't a merle just because her father was. Again, since you seem to be so big on saying you have "proof" about all the bad things this breeder did I'm wondering if you have any proof to back up your claim your girl is actually a hidden merle. You see, generally speaking, brindle markings become MORE pronounced as a pup matures (esp in the tan points like your girl has) and merle markings become LESS pronounced on a hidden merle. (You claim that her merle appeared as she got older.) Of course any breeder that is breeding merle should be responsible enough to discuss all of these things with potential puppy buyers of merle sired/damed litters (esp. when offered intact!) which apparently this breeder did not do when you bought your girl - yet another "red flag" and evidence of an irresponsible, greedy or just plain ignorant (reads "bad") breeder.

You also claim your dog was offered as AKC. Where? In the ad for her it lists several "registries", AKC being just one listed. Did the breeder in writing or orally specifically tell you THIS puppy was AKC? Again, just asking for the "proof" you seem so eager to give.

Bottom line, had you simply taken SOME responsibility yourself to research the breed and what constitutes a good breeder - and had you chosen your puppy's breeder with even a modicum of care - you would not have run into these problems. Also when you went to the breeder's home and were told you were not getting either the papers OR the information about the parents in the meantime until the pup's papers were received, or the promised guarantee, you should have walked - no, RUN - away and later gone after her for your deposit based on her failure to produce these things at the time of sale. (Tho if your puppy really was that sick it sounds like maybe it was a good thing for her that she left there when she did.)

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I'm certainly not defending this or any other BYB - there are FAR too many poor quality Chi breeders out there (sometimes I have to just get OFF the computer as what I see on there in terms of some who claim to be good, caring "breeders" while the quality of their dogs/breeding practices are just appalling, it truly makes me sick and terribly angry!); and none of this takes away from the fact that people who rip other people off NEED TO PAY THE PRICE and yes people need to know about rip-off artists, but buyers also need to understand that they must take at least SOME responsibility for their own decision making processes and not just complain after the fact 'cuz they were "taken" or aren't happy with their choice -- after all, don't we all know that bad breeders, liars and con artists exist and understand that people on the web can pretend to be anyone and anything? Ignorance is these people's greatest ally ... so let's not be ignorant! To those who are even a little bit informed this breeder offers plenty of "red flags" and reasons to RUN in the other direction!

BUYERS, ARM YOURSELVES WITH ALL THE INFORMATION YOU CAN ABOUT THE BREED YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. YOUR KNOWLEDGE WILL HELP YOU SPOT A GOOD VS. BAD BREEDER AND CHOOSE A WELL-BRED PUPPY/DOG!


I'm glad your girl is doing well now. I hope for your/her sake she doesn't develop terrible knees or other severe health problems. I'm afraid for you and her that your ordeal may not be over ...

Yes, I HATE irresponsible, uncaring, ignorant, greedy breeders too!

P.S. I would start with the AG's office and Better Business Bureau for her state of residence. You could take her to small claims court as well.



______________________
"FOR LOVE OF THE BREED!"

quote:

Originally posted by Chrestina:
Let me say its been several months since I have read posts here at Pluba, ( I read more then I ever posted) as it usually seems to turn into some kind of bashing whether your right or wrong. When I read the posts a few days ago, I really debated whether I wanted to dig this up again.

For those who posted under my first thread and care to read I say this:

First and for most, I DID NOT do my homework on this purchase! And I accept full responsibility for that each day by taking care of the chi I purchased who is now approximately 18 months old & has sever bowed legs with popping knees, (leg surgery coming) an under bite like a bull dog & many missing teeth that never developed and so much more! I love her dearly and can’t say now I would have done anything differently as that would mean I would not have her!

In the last 18 months I have learned more then I can put in words and I am still learning! I unlike the breeder am willing to admit I made sooooooo many mistakes and over looked so many red flags and a lot of things which ultimately put in this position! I totally get that! I can’t answer the why? I still ask myself that question, especially since I had 4 other chi‘s prior to buying Sophie, with my oldest dying on July 4th this year at ripe old age of 17! All were researched and all were from wonderful breeders. I guess I got lazy!

But on the flip side of that the breeder needs to admit to her dirty underhandedness and should not be let off the hook either! I spent 10 months trying to work this out with her in respectable way and she refused leaving court as my option. Because I am 6 hours one way from her and she knew that, she said, go ahead and file and I’ll postpone so many times, you’ll make the trip out here and it cost more then your asking for!

So I filed with the PA Attorney Generals Office and they attempted to get her to settle with me, she refused, because I was the first to file, they needed a track record of people like me if they were to go after her on my behalf! So I set out to find other buyers who were taken by her by creating the website. When I began the website it was not of ignorance and crude language as you see today.

The website did exactly what it was intended to do, link me with others who were taken by the breeder, I then bridged the gap and directed them to the AG’s Office, and so much so, she is now in the hands of the Attorneys Generals office being forced to make restitution to all of us listed in the case next week. If the breeder refuses it will become a civil case.

That website is now my opinion, as I see it, though many will debate its content, it’s my thoughts and views on the breeder, and where I vent my anger!

If it helps one person to ask the questions I DID NOT, or not make the STUPID choices I did or links someone who was already been taken by this breeder to file against the breeder without fear, the site is a success!

To ChristinaV, who posted she’s shocked…if you had no problems, lucky you! Here’s your red flag-her site is down because she is in the middle of a big throw down with the Pennsylvannia’s Attorney Generals Office. Now that they know, thanks to me tracking her for over a year, supplying them with proof she sells over 26 pups a year (chi’s yorkie’s & poodles) they have their hands around her neck! FINALLY! And when its settled, I post that too, to the site!

quote:

Originally posted by Ratlady:
Yeah, this is obviously a crappy quality breeder, but then again this person is not the best example of a puppy BUYER either.

I'm sorry, Chrestina ... while ignorance and crude language (on your website) may not be against the law they don't really help your cause either.

I am not saying your little girl is quality bred (because from her parents/pedigree anyone who knows about the breed could tell you she is NOT) or that she was not sick, or that these things did not happen. Only you and the crappy backyard breeder you got her from know exactly what transpired. I am simply saying you do need to take at least SOME of the responsibility for not doing a better job at choosing a quality breeder and a well bred Chihuahua. (I won't comment on the back and forth, alleged e-mails, posts, craziness, etc. between you two as that is he said/she said.)

WHY didn't you DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you shelled out $850 on a puppy? Anybody who had done so would be able to tell this was not a good breeder.

First, there is no such thing as a Teacup Chihuahua. But even if for argument's sake that's just a term thrown around by the ignorant (which would still make this not a quality breeder) and not just a gimmick to charge more money for poor quality puppies, there are plenty of other "red flags" about this breeder that should have also tipped you off as well.

GOOD breeders gladly share pedigree information and pictures of parents with prospective buyers. That you did not demand more information about your puppy is on YOU. (E.g., you seem "shocked" to learn the sire to your puppy is a merle ... WHY didn't you already know what the parents looked like?)

GOOD breeders provide WRITTEN health/genetic guarantees. That you did not demand this from the breeder you chose is again on YOU.

WHY ON EARTH would you give an additional $600 to this breeder when you went to pick up the puppy if as you say you had bad feelings about her and thought you were not going to get your paperwork?

Also, your statement merles are not purebred and that this is why she registers with CKC is utter nonsense. A merle Chi Champion related to my foundation merle Chi went to WESTMINSTER this year! The point is there are bad breeders of both merle AND non merle Chihuahuas and one has nothing to do with the other. There are also both good AND bad AKC breeders. However, CKC is NOT a registry used by serious breeders and that has nothing whatsoever to do with merle.

About Coccidiosis, it is a condition caused by an overgrowth of Coccidia, protozoans which CAN be carried (and spread) by birds, mice, flies, crickets, etc., so technically any dog that spends any amount of time outside (esp. in the country) CAN be exposed mechanically and it doesn't necessarily mean they are kept in unsanitary conditions. (This is one reason why some breeders treat ADULTS prophylactically.) While Coccidia generally cause no problems in adult dogs an overgrowth can cause problems esp. in puppies who may simply have gotten it from their mother who had no symptoms (and she could have gotten it by simply licking bird poop - gross, I know, but yes dogs do gross things, even adorable Chihuahuas!). Stress can also bring on Coccidiosis - such as the stress of going to a new home. That your puppy had this condition two days after you purchased her does not PROVE she had symptoms of it at the time you bought her or that she was brought up in "terrible" conditions - although that sadly would not surprise me, I'm just saying it doesn't prove what you are claiming on your website about how she was raised. Neither does the fact she had an ear infection 1-1/2 weeks AFTER you got her. The poor quality of her breeder tho is fairly obvious. (Wouldn't the fact that in her ad she offers only a THREE MONTH genetic guarantee tip you off?)

And, about you saying your girl is a merle, have you had her DNA tested for the presence of the merle gene? Because IN THE PICTURES anyway she looks like she MAY have brindle markings. The only way to know is the DNA test. She certainly isn't a merle just because her father was. Again, since you seem to be so big on saying you have "proof" about all the bad things this breeder did I'm wondering if you have any proof to back up your claim your girl is actually a hidden merle. You see, generally speaking, brindle markings become MORE pronounced as a pup matures (esp in the tan points like your girl has) and merle markings become LESS pronounced on a hidden merle. (You claim that her merle appeared as she got older.) Of course any breeder that is breeding merle should be responsible enough to discuss all of these things with potential puppy buyers of merle sired/damed litters (esp. when offered intact!) which apparently this breeder did not do when you bought your girl - yet another "red flag" and evidence of an irresponsible, greedy or just plain ignorant (reads "bad") breeder.

You also claim your dog was offered as AKC. Where? In the ad for her it lists several "registries", AKC being just one listed. Did the breeder in writing or orally specifically tell you THIS puppy was AKC? Again, just asking for the "proof" you seem so eager to give.

Bottom line, had you simply taken SOME responsibility yourself to research the breed and what constitutes a good breeder - and had you chosen your puppy's breeder with even a modicum of care - you would not have run into these problems. Also when you went to the breeder's home and were told you were not getting either the papers OR the information about the parents in the meantime until the pup's papers were received, or the promised guarantee, you should have walked - no, RUN - away and later gone after her for your deposit based on her failure to produce these things at the time of sale. (Tho if your puppy really was that sick it sounds like maybe it was a good thing for her that she left there when she did.)

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I'm certainly not defending this or any other BYB - there are FAR too many poor quality Chi breeders out there (sometimes I have to just get OFF the computer as what I see on there in terms of some who claim to be good, caring "breeders" while the quality of their dogs/breeding practices are just appalling, it truly makes me sick and terribly angry!); and none of this takes away from the fact that people who rip other people off NEED TO PAY THE PRICE and yes people need to know about rip-off artists, but buyers also need to understand that they must take at least SOME responsibility for their own decision making processes and not just complain after the fact 'cuz they were "taken" or aren't happy with their choice -- after all, don't we all know that bad breeders, liars and con artists exist and understand that people on the web can pretend to be anyone and anything? Ignorance is these people's greatest ally ... so let's not be ignorant! To those who are even a little bit informed this breeder offers plenty of "red flags" and reasons to RUN in the other direction!

BUYERS, ARM YOURSELVES WITH ALL THE INFORMATION YOU CAN ABOUT THE BREED YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. YOUR KNOWLEDGE WILL HELP YOU SPOT A GOOD VS. BAD BREEDER AND CHOOSE A WELL-BRED PUPPY/DOG!


I'm glad your girl is doing well now. I hope for your/her sake she doesn't develop terrible knees or other severe health problems. I'm afraid for you and her that your ordeal may not be over ...

Yes, I HATE irresponsible, uncaring, ignorant, greedy breeders too!

P.S. I would start with the AG's office and Better Business Bureau for her state of residence. You could take her to small claims court as well.



______________________
"FOR LOVE OF THE BREED!"

quote:

Had this Lisa B settled with you in the beginning, would you have continued to crusade against her alleged poor breeding/selling practices?