Amberleigh, if you believe that red puppy's muzzle is moderately short and slightly pointed, well that's your opinion, but FROM THAT PICTURE many fanciers would not agree.
If you would actually READ what I wrote you would see I specifically said it COULD be the angle of the picture making the muzzle appear more short/blunt. Maybe a different picture would give a better viewpoint (more straight on profile, perhaps, as it looks like the puppy's head is be turned just a bit towards the camera which MIGHT make the muzzle look shorter and might also hide any tapering from jaws to nose that there is). That puppy's muzzle IN THE PICTURE looks MUCH shorter than 1/2 the length of the skull and in the picture I am not able to see the tapering from nose to jaws that the standard calls for. Maybe a picture with a profile that is exactly right on might give a better viewpoint. This is why I always try to preface my opinions as "from the picture" a dog looks this way or that, as photo angles can make a short muzzle look longer a longer muzzle look shorter. Like the curve of the neck, forechest, substance (at this age tho they are still immature that could change as adults) better of the red from these pictures, and I'm not saying she's not cute but there is just something about the expression that seems odd, not sure exactly what it is, maybe something in the mouth, or the eyes? Then again it COULD just be the angle of the picture and optical illusion. I also prefer it when a dog has those lips that turn up in a sort of smile, like the dog has a secret, LOL. Adds to the saucy expression IMO.
BUT, AGAIN, IF YOU COULD POST A PROFILE PICTURE THAT IS RIGHT ON FROM THE SIDE WITHOUT THE PUPPY TURNING HER HEAD SLIGHTLY IT MIGHT MAKE SOME OF THESE THINGS I DON'T CARE FOR IN THAT PICTURE CHANGE A BIT. AND I AM NOT SO IMMATURE THAT I CANNOT ADMIT I LIKE A DOG EVEN IF I DON'T LIKE THE PERSON. ALSO IF A DEAD ON PROFILE SHOWS THESE THINGS IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT THE PUPPY'S MUZZLE MAY APPEAR MORE CORRECT TO ME AND I MIGHT THE EXPRESSION BETTER. WOULD LIKE TO SEE HEAD ON TOO.
Also, apparently unlike you and a few others here I know enough to know that NO ONE can accurately critique a dog from one or two not well stacked pictures or a few candid shots around the house. NO ONE. This would take well stacked photos from ALL angles or to actually see and lay hands on the dog.
Also, SOME of what this is about is PERSONAL PREFERENCE, PERIOD.
I strive for adherence to the breed standard the way I and others I admire interpret it, for example, nice sound body, solid topline, correct tailset, proper angulation, straight front with sufficient depth of chest, not overly long of body, etc., etc. -- which I would assume all those breeding to better the breed (including yourself) do -- but I simply prefer a more moderate headpiece/muzzle, and I am not alone in feeling that way. Many top winning Chihuahuas have a more moderate headpiece.
Amberleigh, I was in no way trying to be nasty in my opinions of your puppies. Which is why I said they are pretty puppies and wished you luck with them. I love the cream puppy, but I just don't care as much for the red puppy. There's no need for you or your buddies or the TROLLS to be nasty and intimate mine don't even look like Chihuahuas just because there are things I don't like about your puppies (or vice versa), because in many cases it is PERSONAL PREFERENCE ... this is immature and nonsensical. All one has to do is look at the illustrated standard on the CCA website, as well as finished champions on various Chihuahua websites, and it is obvious there are different looks and types within the breed among finished champions, including BISS winners and nationally ranked dogs, because the breed allows for personal preference within the standard definitions. The type YOU prefer is no more correct than the type others prefer ... as long as the type preferred can be construed to reasonably adhere to the breed standard.
LOL, the only person who ever asked what breed one of my puppies was is someone who said he looked like a Chihuahua but they were confused as to how he could be because his temperament was SO fantastic - outgoing, friendly, not the least bit hesitant or nervous, utterly unflappable!
P.S. It is easy to breed AWAY from an overly extreme headpiece - one simply breeds to a more moderate - i.e. more correct IMO headpiece. Extreme to extreme will give you high percentage of extreme but bred to moderate extreme produces much more moderate than extreme.
If I wanted to produce a bunch of heads like Bingo's all I would need to do is breed Bingo to females that have an extreme head ... but that is not what I want or believe is correct and with each breeding I am striving to improve upon each parent individually and upon the breed collectively so I breed with that goal in mind. As I am sure do you. We simply have different opinions as to exactly what that means.
quote:
What I want to know is how you think these muzzles are incorrect when they adhere to every ounce of the AKC standard. They have muzzles that come off the stop at a 90 degree angle, it tapers, neither muzzle points up or slopes down, and both have scissors bites. How is that incorrect?? You have never gotten Bingo's head on a puppy (if so it was only once or twice) so how can you breed away from it??
Originally posted by Josephine: Excuse me stupid, but I posted the answer!! Did you miss that post???
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Well, that was really helpful of you Hu..the mighty breeder! An answer would have been more appropriate. Posting/ears.. I raise dachshunds, not chihuahua's..
Thanks for sharing! Next time you're asked a question you'd show more class answering it instead of being a "snot"
I hate to ass-ume, but I take it you knew the meaning of that term the moment you bought your first dog!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Hu-Dare: ANYONE who does not know what posting is, or the correct terminology of hare foot, should DEFINATELY not be breeding. Seriously! That astounds me.
The SC is absolutely stunning. An example which I'm sure will be appreciated by many AKC judges to an early Championship and deserving of top Specialty wins as she matures.
I'd like to see what I call a 'tighter" foot on the LC, but regardless, a prime example not generally attainable in the nest or for sale.
Both, 20 week old babies are the best I've seen posted here in the last 4 years and in the top 6 I've EVER laid eyes on in my life.
Quite the accomplishment.
If You Do Not Know What The Term's Are, Or Definitition's Then You Should Not Be Breeding, Because Obivously You Have No Clue, Or Understanding Or Comprehension Of What The Breed Standard For Any Breed, Including Your Own Would Mean.
Just Like RatLady, You Prove Your True Talent At Back Yard Breeding Skills With Every Post You Make.
Posting Has Nothing To Do With Ears. Good Lord You Are Just As Stupid As You Appear.
Originally posted by Josephine: Let me get this straight!
"quote" You Refer To "Us" As "A" Liar..."Us" is plural.."A Liar" is not.
And, I so much appreciate you acknowledging my champions..most kind! -quote you: We have more champion's than you do, -end quote.
Exactly what point are you trying to make or once again "who are you trying to fool." Dufuss!
If you have any Champs of any kind, you ran out and bought them just recently..Must keep up with the Jones' now mustn't "You" "Yous"??..
No, no, so sorry to confuse you, which is not difficult, but I did not fully understand the Merle/Dapple issue in the beginning, but some very knowledgeable people taught me much and ..NOW I do..and you?
What happened to your... ROFLMAO !@! or is it @!@ siggy? Here's mine!
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Oh, sure you do, TH, many champions..my azzzz! You don't even own a dog or cat, who are you trying to fool! Such a liar...tsk tsk tsk.
Really? Are You 100% Sure? We Are Willing To Bet, That We Have More Champion's Than You Do?
You Refer To Us As A Liar, But The Truth Is, You Do Not Know Shit About Who We Are, Or What Breed We Have.
We Know What Posting Is. We Know What A Hare Foot Is. You, In Spite Of Your Whining About It In Another Thread Knew Full Well What Merle and Dapple Were/Are Because In One Of Your Very First Threads On This Forum You Shared Your Vast Knowledge Of Merle/Dapple.
Originally posted by Ratlady: WOW, lookie here! Something on which we can ALL agree!!
quote:
Originally posted by Bratz: i guess im a moron
yes well nice job editing your post since YOU thought they were lc and sc too so who is the moron now you had to change your post so you did not look so stupid. i only wish i would have quoted it before you changed it. remember you will go to hell for lying so do not try to deny that you thought they were two different coats there rats. i am a moron because i didnt quote your post but i seem to know 'your' breed better than you and certainly know appropriate anatomical terms better than you. always an excuse as to why your dogs are perfect and everyone elses are not 'you prefer' the standard says but until you are winning, hell, even showing at specialties shut your pie hole asd stop critiquing dogs like you know what you are talking about becuz you dont and it is obvious to anyone who knows anything. shut.the.hell.up. you have balls of steel critiquing anyones dogs since yours suck, and have never finished how many have been shown, two, out of how many hopefuls. im sure that when amber finishes these two babies you will still fault them and complain and whine about how they dont fit the standard and yours do. i suggest you switch to rat terriers as even when you do have dogs with decent type you lose it every generation cause you dont know what to keep and what is good and you make poor breeding choices. how did howard huge die and why no babies from him rat? i guess that dog on your page with the short, CORRECT muzzle is not producing that which is why you say you do not like his muzzle, ROFLMAO. shut.the.hell.up.
Howard Huge? ROLFMAO..Okay, I feel another limerick coming on....oh Lord, please stop me!!!
Well I tried. I prayed and prayed for the Lord to give me strength but I think he might be out bowling tonight (at the least the sky tells me so), so he did not come through for me. So anyway, I succumbed to my temptation and here it is:
SHE ONCE HAD A DOG NAMED HOWARD WHO IN PUBLIC WAS REALLY A COWARD BUT SHE SMELLED HIS ANAL GLAND... THOUGHT IT WAS GRAND SO HOWARD HUGE BECAME HIS NEW CALLERD.
NOW CALLERD IS NOT REALLY A WORD IT ACTUALLY SOUNDS QUITE ABSURD BUT FOR SOMEONE LIKE RAT ITS QUITE FITTING IN THAT HER NOSE RESEMBLES A TURD.
However, I must give props to my pal She's really quite a great gal. She gave me some lines And many many times Helped me grill the one who is foul
P.S.
And your hands look really fat You need to check into that I think your water retention Needs a bit of redemption And your Fibro might benefit from that
_________________________ Wicked Wok Chinese Restaurant: NO!!! We no see cat of yours! No more ask please....
OMGawd, CJK, God is REALLY not on your side tonight!!
Please click on my dragons to help them grow----> www.amberleighchihuahuas.com Check out my Chihuahua Show Leads-handmade, leather, one of a kind!!! On my website under "Chihuahua Show Leads"...
Muzzles that are too long usually do not have enough stop and appear “foxy” and plain faced.
Yes there are many finished Champions with too long of a muzzle...does not make it correct. And yes there is a lot of variety in our breed and it is your preference to breed how you like but, I would not say that the majority of the fancy wants a longer muzzle. Also in my option a muzzle that is too long takes away from the saucy expression.
I think that if you get a chance you should go to the Nationals in October where there are fanciers from all over the country....when you do this please come back and tell us all what you see. I bet you will not see very many there with long muzzles. JMO
By the way AMBERLEIGH those are just beautiful puppies!!!
Once again proving all I have ever thought or said about her and why CJK is NOT worthy of my time ...
No, no sermon Jo, something about casting my pearls before swine comes to mind ... she can just wallow in her own swill, the filthy creature, and anyone vile enough to join her.
I just love it when you read my posts: Ears??? Posting??? Don't you mean leaning backward causing the feet to look poor!! Posting is about feet, not ears..you really are stupid!
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Excuse me stupid, but I posted the answer!! Did you miss that post???
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Well, that was really helpful of you Hu..the mighty breeder! An answer would have been more appropriate. Posting/ears.. I raise dachshunds, not chihuahua's..
Thanks for sharing! Next time you're asked a question you'd show more class answering it instead of being a "snot"
I hate to ass-ume, but I take it you knew the meaning of that term the moment you bought your first dog!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Hu-Dare: ANYONE who does not know what posting is, or the correct terminology of hare foot, should DEFINATELY not be breeding. Seriously! That astounds me.
The SC is absolutely stunning. An example which I'm sure will be appreciated by many AKC judges to an early Championship and deserving of top Specialty wins as she matures.
I'd like to see what I call a 'tighter" foot on the LC, but regardless, a prime example not generally attainable in the nest or for sale.
Both, 20 week old babies are the best I've seen posted here in the last 4 years and in the top 6 I've EVER laid eyes on in my life.
Quite the accomplishment.
If You Do Not Know What The Term's Are, Or Definitition's Then You Should Not Be Breeding, Because Obivously You Have No Clue, Or Understanding Or Comprehension Of What The Breed Standard For Any Breed, Including Your Own Would Mean.
Just Like RatLady, You Prove Your True Talent At Back Yard Breeding Skills With Every Post You Make.
Posting Has Nothing To Do With Ears. Good Lord You Are Just As Stupid As You Appear.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
Your the one that said it..you first liar! None of us have seen any of your "animals"..isn't that a little odd? Where oh where can they be??
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Let me get this straight!
"quote" You Refer To "Us" As "A" Liar..."Us" is plural.."A Liar" is not.
And, I so much appreciate you acknowledging my champions..most kind! -quote you: We have more champion's than you do, -end quote.
Exactly what point are you trying to make or once again "who are you trying to fool." Dufuss!
If you have any Champs of any kind, you ran out and bought them just recently..Must keep up with the Jones' now mustn't "You" "Yous"??..
No, no, so sorry to confuse you, which is not difficult, but I did not fully understand the Merle/Dapple issue in the beginning, but some very knowledgeable people taught me much and ..NOW I do..and you?
What happened to your... ROFLMAO !@! or is it @!@ siggy? Here's mine!
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Oh, sure you do, TH, many champions..my azzzz! You don't even own a dog or cat, who are you trying to fool! Such a liar...tsk tsk tsk.
Really? Are You 100% Sure? We Are Willing To Bet, That We Have More Champion's Than You Do?
You Refer To Us As A Liar, But The Truth Is, You Do Not Know Shit About Who We Are, Or What Breed We Have.
We Know What Posting Is. We Know What A Hare Foot Is. You, In Spite Of Your Whining About It In Another Thread Knew Full Well What Merle and Dapple Were/Are Because In One Of Your Very First Threads On This Forum You Shared Your Vast Knowledge Of Merle/Dapple.
You're Nothing More Than A Crock Of Shit.
Prove It Crock.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
Originally posted by Josephine: Your the one that said it..you first liar! None of us have seen any of your "animals"..isn't that a little odd? Where or where can they be??
edited to say: No harm meant, but you sure write like a dyke...wonder who you are...LOLOLOL..
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Let me get this straight!
"quote" You Refer To "Us" As "A" Liar..."Us" is plural.."A Liar" is not.
And, I so much appreciate you acknowledging my champions..most kind! -quote you: We have more champion's than you do, -end quote.
Exactly what point are you trying to make or once again "who are you trying to fool." Dufuss!
If you have any Champs of any kind, you ran out and bought them just recently..Must keep up with the Jones' now mustn't "You" "Yous"??..
No, no, so sorry to confuse you, which is not difficult, but I did not fully understand the Merle/Dapple issue in the beginning, but some very knowledgeable people taught me much and ..NOW I do..and you?
What happened to your... ROFLMAO !@! or is it @!@ siggy? Here's mine!
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Oh, sure you do, TH, many champions..my azzzz! You don't even own a dog or cat, who are you trying to fool! Such a liar...tsk tsk tsk.
Really? Are You 100% Sure? We Are Willing To Bet, That We Have More Champion's Than You Do?
You Refer To Us As A Liar, But The Truth Is, You Do Not Know Shit About Who We Are, Or What Breed We Have.
We Know What Posting Is. We Know What A Hare Foot Is. You, In Spite Of Your Whining About It In Another Thread Knew Full Well What Merle and Dapple Were/Are Because In One Of Your Very First Threads On This Forum You Shared Your Vast Knowledge Of Merle/Dapple.
You're Nothing More Than A Crock Of Shit.
Prove It Crock.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
Jenn, have you studied the pictures on the CCA illustrated standard? How many do you see with an expression like that of the red puppy? Not the cream, the red. Now MAYBE you have seen the dog IN PERSON and MAYBE she looks different than in that photo. I will ALWAYS concede that a dog can look different in person as opposed to a photo because I know from personal experience this is the case!
ALSO FROM THE STANDARD:
"Extremely short muzzles may be too blunt and not slightly pointed."
Again, extremely short is open to interpretation, just as is moderately short. I've seen a number of top ranked Chihuahuas up close and personal and they were not the extreme and had more of the expression I care for. You are right, tho, this is a matter of opinion. And in a room full of 25 fanciers you would likely have 25 opinions varying to some degree. There is not only one right answer.
For example, in my eyes Katie's muzzle could be slightly fuller and shorter in appearance. As she matures this will happen to a certain extent because this is how her lines mature (her mom always had a gorgeous body but her head improved dramatically as she matured, I really must update her picture) so I am quite confident in about a year Katie will also have matured and improved (as will these puppies of Amberleigh's). But what I am saying is that a slightly too long, or slightly too pointed muzzle is no less correct than a too short, too blunt muzzle - as neither are "perfect" per the standard, but apparently you prefer your flaw to be on the side of the extreme. That's your choice. I LOVE Bingo, and I do think he's very cute, but I don't want to produce his extreme headpiece, as frankly I affectionately call him "The Brain" (his song--yes my Chihuahuas have their own individual songs in addition to the group songs--is the theme song to "Pinky & The Brain") -- and in my view there should be nothing "extreme" about these dogs, they should be well balanced and nothing that sticks out to you when you look at them but rather there should just be an overall outline that is pleasing and then when you are critiquing the dog you have to carefully study each part of the dog to find its flaws because each part of the dog flows properly into the next.
The only thing that really sticks out to me about these puppies is esp. those feet on the red (the muzzle length and expression COULD be the angle of the picture). The rest is pretty minor stuff and subject to interpretation, they are also still very young.
I wish I could afford to go to Chicago, but definitely out of my budget at this time. Hopefully I can make spring rotating, but likely depends on where I am living at that time. If still in CA will be more feasible.
quote:
Originally posted by jennwhispers: Taken from the Standard Rat Lady refers too!
Muzzles that are too long usually do not have enough stop and appear “foxy” and plain faced.
Yes there are many finished Champions with too long of a muzzle...does not make it correct. And yes there is a lot of variety in our breed and it is your preference to breed how you like but, I would not say that the majority of the fancy wants a longer muzzle. Also in my option a muzzle that is too long takes away from the saucy expression.
I think that if you get a chance you should go to the Nationals in October where there are fanciers from all over the country....when you do this please come back and tell us all what you see. I bet you will not see very many there with long muzzles. JMO
Originally posted by Josephine: AHA..CJK..Posting is all about ears and direction their are pointing..Thar' ya go..
I had to look it up..too many snotty know it all's who couldn't answer the question..hey wait, maybe they didn't know either??? They were just foolin' us into thinkin' they knew!
quote:
Originally posted by CJK:
quote:
Originally posted by MW9:
quote:
Originally posted by Amberleigh:
quote:
Originally posted by MW9: hair foot
And if a "hare foot" is the only thing wrong with them, I'll take it!! Remember, they are still puppies and puppies change. They are posting back, quite possibly why you are seeing a flat foot NOT a hare foot. Hare foot is when the actual center toes are longer then the outside tos and the foot is flat. These girls do not have long toes. At least my puppies look like Chihuahuas....
hair foot insider joke all show breeders who knew my brother would know what was referred to many faults look like chihuahuas a chihuahua with a nice head can have a bad body one with a narrow head can have a good body both dogs look like chihuahuas so does the one posted by rat go look at the pictures on the link you sent
Huh? Can you pls go back and put in some periods in that post so it makes some sense? Thx
Reposted For Poor Josephine's Reference Where She Clearly State's That Posting Is About Ears.
Originally posted by Josephine: Your the one that said it..you first liar! None of us have seen any of your "animals"..isn't that a little odd? Where or where can they be??
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Let me get this straight!
"quote" You Refer To "Us" As "A" Liar..."Us" is plural.."A Liar" is not.
And, I so much appreciate you acknowledging my champions..most kind! -quote you: We have more champion's than you do, -end quote.
Exactly what point are you trying to make or once again "who are you trying to fool." Dufuss!
If you have any Champs of any kind, you ran out and bought them just recently..Must keep up with the Jones' now mustn't "You" "Yous"??..
No, no, so sorry to confuse you, which is not difficult, but I did not fully understand the Merle/Dapple issue in the beginning, but some very knowledgeable people taught me much and ..NOW I do..and you?
What happened to your... ROFLMAO !@! or is it @!@ siggy? Here's mine!
quote:
Originally posted by Truths Here:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine: Oh, sure you do, TH, many champions..my azzzz! You don't even own a dog or cat, who are you trying to fool! Such a liar...tsk tsk tsk.
Really? Are You 100% Sure? We Are Willing To Bet, That We Have More Champion's Than You Do?
You Refer To Us As A Liar, But The Truth Is, You Do Not Know Shit About Who We Are, Or What Breed We Have.
We Know What Posting Is. We Know What A Hare Foot Is. You, In Spite Of Your Whining About It In Another Thread Knew Full Well What Merle and Dapple Were/Are Because In One Of Your Very First Threads On This Forum You Shared Your Vast Knowledge Of Merle/Dapple.
You're Nothing More Than A Crock Of Shit.
Prove It Crock.
We Have Told You Many Times, And Given You Permission.
But Since You Seem To Have Intellect Issues We Will Re-State For You.
Since You Are So Absolutely Sure You Know Who We Are, We Give You Full Permission To Post Photos Of Our Dogs, Cats, Gerbils, Etc, As You See Fit.
If You Cannot, Or Choose Not To, Then You Cannot Prove Your Point, And You Are Still Nothing More Than A Wannabe Braggart, That Is A Crock Of Shit, And That Deary, Is What Really Sticks In Your Throat.
So Shut Up, Or Prove Your Allegations. We Await Your Photo Parade.
Rat, please tell me HOW you can see expression on the red puppy?? You cannot see expression from the side, you have to see it from the front. And has JW seen/read the AKC standard?? Guess what, I think she has...she was co-owner/co-breeder of the smooth coat Winner's Bitch, Best of Winner's, and Best Bred-By at the NATIONAL last year...you don't win like that without UNDERSTANDING and BREEDING to the standard. Funny, because she has been in the breed alot less then you and with my mentoring has accomplished wonderful things. So. we must be doing something right AND we must understand our AKC standard and be able to interpret it correctly......
Please click on my dragons to help them grow----> www.amberleighchihuahuas.com Check out my Chihuahua Show Leads-handmade, leather, one of a kind!!! On my website under "Chihuahua Show Leads"...
Here's a more head on so you can see some expression, she is looking slightly up...although I prefer Emily's expression I do not think JuJu's is incorrect in any way....she has a smaller eye but is typical of her pedigree and should get bigger with age/matuing.
Please click on my dragons to help them grow----> www.amberleighchihuahuas.com Check out my Chihuahua Show Leads-handmade, leather, one of a kind!!! On my website under "Chihuahua Show Leads"...
