Originally posted by Chibreeder: ... So lets post the good stuff that has been said, so we wont have to wade through the muck.
Unfortunately - and especially so for those of us who have the great misfortune of coming across CB's posts - his nonsensical ramblings and idiotic self-serving drivel is NOTHING BUT MUCK!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
His is a good and honest reply. If you would bother to read ALL that he has written, you would find that he maintains, as most experienced researchers do, that ALL breeds are the result of cross-breeding somewhere along the line whether it is "approved" or not. Not exactly brain surgery. There is NO WAY you are ever going to get the merle genes out of breeds - it is there, regardless of HOW it got there - that is a moot point! The issue is in dealing with it and that is pretty simple. If you don't want it/like it/hate it/detest it/ etc. etc., don't breed it! It certainly is easy enough to avoid with all the testing that is available. But since it is here, let those who are responsible & willing to get into the trenches and work with it hands-on to be able to better what has come into the gene pool by whatever means. Sweeping it under the rug and "banning" it so that BYB's & millers can tout them as "rare" colors" for big bucks, isn't going to help in any way. For better or worse, it is HERE! Deal with it!
Not exactly brain surgery. There is NO WAY you are ever going to get the merle genes out of breeds - The issue is in dealing with it and that is pretty simple. If you don't want it/like it/hate it/detest it/ etc. etc., don't breed it! It certainly is easy enough to avoid with all the testing that is available. But since it is here, let those who are responsible & willing to get into the trenches and work with it hands-on to be able to better what has come into the gene pool by whatever means. Sweeping it under the rug and "banning" it so that BYB's & millers can tout them as "rare" colors" for big bucks, isn't going to help in any way. For better or worse, it is HERE! Deal with it!
Sue
GOOD POST SUE....EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS SO VERY TRUE. THERE IS A COLOR AND PATTERN FOR EVERYONE. AND IF EVERYONE TESTED ALL THEIR BREEDING STOCK....WHATEVER COLOR OR PATTERN.....THE BREED WOULD BE ALOT SOUNDER. TO SINGLE OUT A PATTERN THAT ''MAY OR COULD'' IS INSANE. AS ONE PERSON SAID ABOUT THE WARNINGS ON AN IBUPROPHEN BOTTLE.....FOR THE COULD...MAY...WARNINGS.....WITH THE ANTI MERLE ACTIVISTS THINKING......IBUPROPHEN SHOULD BE BANNED. OR ANY OTHER MEDICATION OUT THERE.....
Originally posted by Henny: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Truths Here: Oh Little Man, Little Man. Are You Still Pretending To Be A Real Breeder?
Or Are You Still Basing Your Machismo On Those 2 Lonely Blue Ribbons That You Won Because You Were The Only Dog Entered?
Yes, Indeed! You Are Quite The Pathetic Joke!
ROFLMAO !@!
SO HE GOT A BLUE RIBBON....YOU GET ONE OF THOSE IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN YOUR CLASS. AND YOU GET A RW RIBBON WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER DOG AND THEY GET WINNERS. CONSIDERING CB IS NOT EVEN THE BREEDER OR OWNER OF THIS BITCH....WHAT IS HIS BRAG? THE INDIVIDUAL LOOKS LIKE A PRICK EARED BORDER COLLIE!!!! OH WELL ....BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
Originally posted by GEORGE1948: Not exactly brain surgery. There is NO WAY you are ever going to get the merle genes out of breeds - The issue is in dealing with it and that is pretty simple. If you don't want it/like it/hate it/detest it/ etc. etc., don't breed it! It certainly is easy enough to avoid with all the testing that is available. But since it is here, let those who are responsible & willing to get into the trenches and work with it hands-on to be able to better what has come into the gene pool by whatever means. Sweeping it under the rug and "banning" it so that BYB's & millers can tout them as "rare" colors" for big bucks, isn't going to help in any way. For better or worse, it is HERE! Deal with it!
Sue
GOOD POST SUE....EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS SO VERY TRUE. THERE IS A COLOR AND PATTERN FOR EVERYONE. AND IF EVERYONE TESTED ALL THEIR BREEDING STOCK....WHATEVER COLOR OR PATTERN.....THE BREED WOULD BE ALOT SOUNDER. TO SINGLE OUT A PATTERN THAT ''MAY OR COULD'' IS INSANE. AS ONE PERSON SAID ABOUT THE WARNINGS ON AN IBUPROPHEN BOTTLE.....FOR THE COULD...MAY...WARNINGS.....WITH THE ANTI MERLE ACTIVISTS THINKING......IBUPROPHEN SHOULD BE BANNED. OR ANY OTHER MEDICATION OUT THERE.....
The operative word in your post is "everyone." Makes you wonder who are the more responsible breeders here - the concerned merle breeders who are testing their breeding stock or the breeders of all other colors who go on their merry way with no testing for any reason, assuming that all is well until a problem comes up? You are absolutely right that the breed would be a LOT sounder if EVERYONE tested their breeding stock, but the odds of that happening outside of the merles is pretty low - testing has NEVER been a priority in the more common colors/patterns. Too bad for all.
Originally posted by siestasue2: Makes you wonder who are the more responsible breeders here - the concerned merle breeders who are testing their breeding stock or the breeders of all other colors who go on their merry way with no testing for any reason, assuming that all is well until a problem comes up? You are absolutely right that the breed would be a LOT sounder if EVERYONE tested their breeding stock, but the odds of that happening outside of the merles is pretty low - testing has NEVER been a priority in the more common colors/patterns. Too bad for all.
AMEN! These hypocrites need to take the beam out of their own eye and concentrate on doing right by this breed NO MATTER WHAT COLOR/PATTERN THEY ARE (OR ARE NOT) BREEDING!!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
Originally posted by Chibreeder: I can honestly say ALL of my dogs are breed standard with NO DQ faults.
Sorry, CB, nobody is buying your particular brand of baloney here ... better go back to your buddies on the BYB/Miller board! They are the ONLY ones who don't see right through you!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
Oh Little Man, Little Man. Are You Still Pretending To Be A Real Breeder?
Or Are You Still Basing Your Machismo On Those 2 Lonely Blue Ribbons That You Won Because You Were The Only Dog Entered?
Yes, Indeed! You Are Quite The Pathetic Joke!
SO HE GOT A BLUE RIBBON....YOU GET ONE OF THOSE IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN YOUR CLASS. AND YOU GET A RW RIBBON WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER DOG AND THEY GET WINNERS. CONSIDERING CB IS NOT EVEN THE BREEDER OR OWNER OF THIS BITCH....WHAT IS HIS BRAG? THE INDIVIDUAL LOOKS LIKE A PRICK EARED BORDER COLLIE!!!! OH WELL ....BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
I know it is just too funny .. CB posts these ribbons on his website like they actually mean the dog DID something -- besides just "showing up" that is -- but he "conveniently" forgets to explain that the dog took first place by DEFAULT because it was the ONLY one in the class! And Reserve? Well, yes, but there was only one other dog in competition ... which means his dog was LAST!
WOW, aren't you impressed George? And you thought CB wasn't an "accomplished" show breeder!
BTW, that breeder/owner is obviously a relative of his, but I wonder why his dog's aren't in his own name?
Anyway, the puppy is kinda cute, no not really fantastic, BUT listen considering how terribly substandard her dam is she's really not too bad! Of course CB has "conveniently" taken her dam's picture off his website, along with the rest of his worst dogs, but here she is anyway (check out the "lovely" Prissy at the bottom of the page):
And yes I freely admit I had one homely Chihuahua female when I FIRST started in the breed (altho in my defense I was told by the person I got her from who showed Chihuahuas that she would produce show quality) ... but it only took me about 1-1/2 years to realize I did not want those genes in my breeding program and she AND ALL her offspring were placed in pet homes! EIGHT years into this CB is still breeding this poor quality ... and believe me Prissy is even better than others he has placed INTACT FOR BREEDING with his APRI miller buddies!
I do see he has removed the link he had to the APRI "show" - more aptly named "Pets On Parade"! Do you all remember the page he had entitled "Why I Love APRI"? It was all about how APRI saved him money when he lost his AKC papers on his dogs ... imagine that AKC wanted a fee to send him copies (the nerve!)! Yep, APRI saved him money so he became it's number one fan ... that pretty much says it all, doesn't it!?!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
Oh Little Man, Little Man. Are You Still Pretending To Be A Real Breeder?
Or Are You Still Basing Your Machismo On Those 2 Lonely Blue Ribbons That You Won Because You Were The Only Dog Entered?
Yes, Indeed! You Are Quite The Pathetic Joke!
SO HE GOT A BLUE RIBBON....YOU GET ONE OF THOSE IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN YOUR CLASS. AND YOU GET A RW RIBBON WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER DOG AND THEY GET WINNERS. CONSIDERING CB IS NOT EVEN THE BREEDER OR OWNER OF THIS BITCH....WHAT IS HIS BRAG? THE INDIVIDUAL LOOKS LIKE A PRICK EARED BORDER COLLIE!!!! OH WELL ....BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
I know it is just too funny .. CB posts these ribbons on his website like they actually mean the dog DID something -- besides just "showing up" that is -- but he "conveniently" forgets to explain that the dog took first place by DEFAULT because it was the ONLY one in the class! And Reserve? Well, yes, but there was only one other dog in competition ... which means his dog was LAST!
WOW, aren't you impressed George? And you thought CB wasn't an "accomplished" show breeder!
BTW, that breeder/owner is obviously a relative of his, but I wonder why his dog's aren't in his own name?
Anyway, the puppy is kinda cute, no not really fantastic, BUT listen considering how terribly substandard her dam is she's really not too bad! Of course CB has "conveniently" taken her dam's picture off his website, along with the rest of his worst dogs, but here she is anyway (check out the "lovely" Prissy at the bottom of the page):
And yes I freely admit I had one homely Chihuahua female when I FIRST started in the breed (altho in my defense I was told by the person I got her from who showed Chihuahuas that she would produce show quality) ... but it only took me about 1-1/2 years to realize I did not want those genes in my breeding program and she AND ALL her offspring were placed in pet homes! EIGHT years into this CB is still breeding this poor quality ... and believe me Prissy is even better than others he has placed INTACT FOR BREEDING with his APRI miller buddies!
I do see he has removed the link he had to the APRI "show" - more aptly named "Pets On Parade"! Do you all remember the page he had entitled "Why I Love APRI"? It was all about how APRI saved him money when he lost his AKC papers on his dogs ... imagine that AKC wanted a fee to send him copies (the nerve!)! Yep, APRI saved him money so he became it's number one fan ... that pretty much says it all, doesn't it!?!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
Then again, with your deeply sociopathic behavior and extreme psychosis, you have a LOT of "issues" and telling lies is just ONE!
AND YOU CAN TRY TO DEFLECT AND TELL FIBS ABOUT OTHERS ALL YOU WANT ... WE ARE ON TO YOU AND NOBODY HERE BELIEVES A WORD YOU SAY BECAUSE WE KNOW BETTER!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
Oh Little Man, Little Man. Are You Still Pretending To Be A Real Breeder?
Or Are You Still Basing Your Machismo On Those 2 Lonely Blue Ribbons That You Won Because You Were The Only Dog Entered?
Yes, Indeed! You Are Quite The Pathetic Joke!
SO HE GOT A BLUE RIBBON....YOU GET ONE OF THOSE IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN YOUR CLASS. AND YOU GET A RW RIBBON WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER DOG AND THEY GET WINNERS. CONSIDERING CB IS NOT EVEN THE BREEDER OR OWNER OF THIS BITCH....WHAT IS HIS BRAG? THE INDIVIDUAL LOOKS LIKE A PRICK EARED BORDER COLLIE!!!! OH WELL ....BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
I know it is just too funny .. CB posts these ribbons on his website like they actually mean the dog DID something -- besides just "showing up" that is -- but he "conveniently" forgets to explain that the dog took first place by DEFAULT because it was the ONLY one in the class! And Reserve? Well, yes, but there was only one other dog in competition ... which means his dog was LAST!
WOW, aren't you impressed George? And you thought CB wasn't an "accomplished" show breeder!
BTW, that breeder/owner is obviously a relative of his, but I wonder why his dog's aren't in his own name?
Anyway, the puppy is kinda cute, no not really fantastic, BUT listen considering how terribly substandard her dam is she's really not too bad! Of course CB has "conveniently" taken her dam's picture off his website, along with the rest of his worst dogs, but here she is anyway (check out the "lovely" Prissy at the bottom of the page):
And yes I freely admit I had one homely Chihuahua female when I FIRST started in the breed (altho in my defense I was told by the person I got her from who showed Chihuahuas that she would produce show quality) ... but it only took me about 1-1/2 years to realize I did not want those genes in my breeding program and she AND ALL her offspring were placed in pet homes! EIGHT years into this CB is still breeding this poor quality ... and believe me Prissy is even better than others he has placed INTACT FOR BREEDING with his APRI miller buddies!
I do see he has removed the link he had to the APRI "show" - more aptly named "Pets On Parade"! Do you all remember the page he had entitled "Why I Love APRI"? It was all about how APRI saved him money when he lost his AKC papers on his dogs ... imagine that AKC wanted a fee to send him copies (the nerve!)! Yep, APRI saved him money so he became it's number one fan ... that pretty much says it all, doesn't it!?!
Sooo you two dummys are saying AKC shows mean nothing? Judges CAN withhold ribbons. BOTH judges commented on how nice my puppy was and both were tough judges. Lots of chi breeders will not even show to one of the judges I had. Rats dont show!!! George competes against her own dogs!!!
I think your ribbons mean plenty. They mean you feel your exhibit is competetive enough to actually enter a show. They mean you have a desire to show dogs and the confidence to learn the same way everyone does. By doing it. Positive comments from a judge are always nice whether your standing alone or with 20, inside the ring or out.
Some are here because they hope to make a difference, others like to roll around in the feces. You'll be able to "sniff them out" in no time. -DJ's Doxies,
Then again I was at a show recently where a Chihuahua was put up and finished his championship and he was so incredibly UN-sound that his rear continuously buckled under him as he went around the ring ... it was disgusting! And shameful on the part of the people who chose to exhibit him AND the judge who put up an obviously lame dog!
And yes I'm sure that judge had some "positive" comments about that dog since he chose him over some NICE Chihuahuas ... and I bet that dog's owners thought he was pretty "special" too ... and "competitive" and all tha jazz ...
So, what have we learned? While judges CAN withhold ribbons they rarely do. While judges are SUPPOSED to choose quality dogs and only dogs worthy of a CH title SHOULD finish, in the "real world" it simply doesn't always work that way.
Does an AKC show or championship title mean "nothing"? IT DEPENDS ON THE JUDGE AND IT SURE AND HECK DEPENDS ON THE DOG!
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
Oh Little Man, Little Man. Are You Still Pretending To Be A Real Breeder?
Or Are You Still Basing Your Machismo On Those 2 Lonely Blue Ribbons That You Won Because You Were The Only Dog Entered?
Yes, Indeed! You Are Quite The Pathetic Joke!
SO HE GOT A BLUE RIBBON....YOU GET ONE OF THOSE IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN YOUR CLASS. AND YOU GET A RW RIBBON WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER DOG AND THEY GET WINNERS. CONSIDERING CB IS NOT EVEN THE BREEDER OR OWNER OF THIS BITCH....WHAT IS HIS BRAG? THE INDIVIDUAL LOOKS LIKE A PRICK EARED BORDER COLLIE!!!! OH WELL ....BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.
I know it is just too funny .. CB posts these ribbons on his website like they actually mean the dog DID something -- besides just "showing up" that is -- but he "conveniently" forgets to explain that the dog took first place by DEFAULT because it was the ONLY one in the class! And Reserve? Well, yes, but there was only one other dog in competition ... which means his dog was LAST!
WOW, aren't you impressed George? And you thought CB wasn't an "accomplished" show breeder!
BTW, that breeder/owner is obviously a relative of his, but I wonder why his dog's aren't in his own name?
Anyway, the puppy is kinda cute, no not really fantastic, BUT listen considering how terribly substandard her dam is she's really not too bad! Of course CB has "conveniently" taken her dam's picture off his website, along with the rest of his worst dogs, but here she is anyway (check out the "lovely" Prissy at the bottom of the page):
And yes I freely admit I had one homely Chihuahua female when I FIRST started in the breed (altho in my defense I was told by the person I got her from who showed Chihuahuas that she would produce show quality) ... but it only took me about 1-1/2 years to realize I did not want those genes in my breeding program and she AND ALL her offspring were placed in pet homes! EIGHT years into this CB is still breeding this poor quality ... and believe me Prissy is even better than others he has placed INTACT FOR BREEDING with his APRI miller buddies!
I do see he has removed the link he had to the APRI "show" - more aptly named "Pets On Parade"! Do you all remember the page he had entitled "Why I Love APRI"? It was all about how APRI saved him money when he lost his AKC papers on his dogs ... imagine that AKC wanted a fee to send him copies (the nerve!)! Yep, APRI saved him money so he became it's number one fan ... that pretty much says it all, doesn't it!?!
Sooo you two dummys are saying AKC shows mean nothing? Judges CAN withhold ribbons. BOTH judges commented on how nice my puppy was and both were tough judges. Lots of chi breeders will not even show to one of the judges I had. Rats dont show!!! George competes against her own dogs!!!
I think your ribbons mean plenty. They mean you feel your exhibit is competetive enough to actually enter a show. They mean you have a desire to show dogs and the confidence to learn the same way everyone does. By doing it. Positive comments from a judge are always nice whether your standing alone or with 20, inside the ring or out.
I agree. As for ugly dog in the breeding program. Sunrise was ugly and I bashed here for useing her but I knew what was behind her.Her grandson is my show boy Sunny. It just shows that you NEED to know what is behind a dog.Not just the look of the dog.
TW, you are so very correct..........Got to know both the Genotype & the Phenotype. A person can breed two great looking dogs together & get very, very ugly puppies who grow up to be very, very ugly dogs. Or a person can breed two ugly dogs (with good genotype) together & get beautiful puppies who grow up to be beautiful dogs. We gamble every time we do a breeding but good knowledge sure helps. charly
True, a dog doesn't have to be show quality to produce show quality - I would much rather have the better producing yet not as "pretty" littermate of a champion than the champion that doesn't produce itself ... but the quality DOES need to be there to pull up and a very occasional nice enough puppy out of many pet quality is not good enough IMO - breeding should be about CONSISTENTLY producing quality.
It shouldn't take generation after generation of producing poor to mediocre quality dogs to finally get something decent IMO. That's more of a "fluke" than any kind of applied knowledge.
Some plain dogs CAN consistently produce beautifully ... but some dogs are just plain, period. Unfortunately CB doesn't seem to knows the difference ... but I guess even he eventually got tired of all the poor pet quality he has been producing for years because if I recall he did FINALLY go out and buy new pups that at least had some champions behind them. Remember how he kept insisting it was his "plan" to build from all pet pedigrees with few (if any!) champions so he wouldn't be "riding the coattails" of other, accomplished breeders?!? LOLOL, funny thing is most of us who are knowledgeable in these things call starting with quality just good old fashioned breeding sense!
It's definitely true that successful breeding is all about KNOWING YOUR DOGS AND THEIR LINES.
P.S. Love the face on that Sunny TW and you already know that pup is darling.
Posts: 3781 | Location (City, State): SoCA | Registered: Sun January 11 2004
a very occasional nice enough puppy out of many pet quality is not good enough IMO
Well I would have put up a pic of her daughter if I had thought of it. here is one. Tried showing her but after wining her class (bred by) most of the shows that was all she would give me for the day. After 13 shows I just kept her home. She is not quite 5 lbs so I am not sure if I'll ever breed her.
LOLOL, funny thing is most of us who are knowledgeable in these things call starting with quality just good old fashioned breeding sense! 
