Originally posted by Tanya: Dr Strain in this study is trying to prove there are parallels in deafness stemming from the merle gene, wonder why he seems to say something different for Chihuahuas?
BECAUSE THROUGHOUT HIS RESEARCH, THE GENE APPEARS TO MANIFEST ITSELF DIFFERENTLY IN DIFFERENT BREEDS - SOME HAVE A HIGHER % OF DEAFNESS AND BLINDNESS WHILE OTHERS, ESPECIALLY DOUBLE MERLES WHO ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED, AS IN THE CATAHOULAS & DACHSHUNDS, DO NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM. OF ALL THE MERLES DOGS IN HIS DATABASE THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED, THE CHIHUAHUA IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE FOR THESE PROBLEMS. THAT BEING SAID, IF THE MERLE CHI'S ARE SUCH A GENETIC DISASTER, WHY ARE THESE %'S SO LOW - MORE THAN 1% AND LESS THAN 2%? COLLIES & SHELTIES WOULD GIVE THEIR EYE TEETH TO HAVE THESE PERCENTAGES IN THEIR TESTING - FOR SOME AS YET UNEXPLAINED REASON, THE % OUTCOME IS HIGHER IN THE COLLIE-TYPE BREEDS, BUT AS DR. STRAIN POINTED OUT, IT IS UNKNOWN WHAT THE DETERMINANTS ARE THAT CAUSE THESE CONDITIONS. CONTINUED TESTING AND RESEARCH IS THE ANSWER.
Some lay breeders think and state merle is not the same in every breed but according to the Texas A&M study merle probably goes back before there were breed distinctions and that Collies, Shelties and Aussies it is identical. Since Aussies and shelties were probably used to bring the pattern to Chihuahuas along with Dachs, this just looks like a way to get more grant money for studies done with different bias attached. JMO
THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE IS "PROBABLY" AND IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE SO. THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT MERLE GOES BACK BEFORE BREED DISTINCTION AND IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE OF YOU TO SAY THAT THE MERLE CHI IS THE RESULT OF CHI'S BEING CROSSED WITH MERLE COLLIES, SHELTIES OR DACHSHUNDS AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE THE CASE. YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF THAT JUST AS THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THEY WEREN'T, SO LET'S NOT TWIST WORDS HERE.
Although some my think that the work done by researchers like Dr. Strain will provide the "link" between blindness and deafness to the merle gene. I look at this with a different twist.
Research may indeed, provide proof that the merle gene isn't the "link" but yet an outside MODIFIER like ones that attach to the SP/SW gene. 90 breeds and climbing have the congential defect with vision and hearing to date, I strongly believe that is the funding source... think about it... What are we breeding into our lines? How can we stop the spreading of the disorders and congential defects? Less than 20 breeds with the merle gene... Something else is causing the problem, numbers show that with no uncertain terms.
And although years ago, it may have been common assumption to point blame on the merle gene, studies these days are pointing in another direction.
Hense I believe that is why Dr. Strain and others are funding the CATAHOULAS, and are a focus to the study's and why funding is available.. Why some may ask. Because it is a breed that breeds merle to merle in every breeding. Isolate the source in that breed and you will find the "beast" causing the problem.
One thing that will happen is someday they will find the modifier, I hope it is sooner than later.
But it has long been my belief, that it is not the merle gene at all. Why else would homozygous merles in certain breeds be uneffected? If merle was the cause it should yield a 100% outcome of vision and hearing problems. (When one looks at this picture from a medical and genetic viewpoint.)
I feel that is what some researchers are now thinking.
Again call me nuts if you want but I believe they will find the congential defect of blindness and deafness on a "modifier" that links up with a white spotting gene. Since White seems to have to be present somewhere on the dogs effected in the majority of cases, and the others effected are more than likely to be carrying the recessive state.
This research needs to be done, and quickly as it doesn't and isn't just happening in your chihuahuas it is documented in over 90 breeds and climbing. That is more than 50% of our recognized AKC breeds. This is a SERIOUS issue, not a self serving one. It is effecting the majority of breeders and breeds.
And although I admittedly don't know the CATAHOULAS like I would like... Do they have white markings? That would support my thoughts even more if they don't have white markings or if the white markings never go more than "S" markings. Meaning no Irish markings or greater.
Some may say research is being done to prove merle as the problem, but others like me believe research will provide proof that merle is not the problem.
We should support and test until the results are in. IMHO .
Not DQ and eradicate on half known data. Reminds me of stories of "Witch Hunts". Jumping to conclusions... it is never a good resolve. What would the anti merle people do if they realized that their sp/sw dogs were the "WHOLE" source of the problem? WOULD they feel any remorse? OR EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY any GUILT?
A program like that here would almost have to be voluntary(like CHIC) due to the apathetic agenda of most BYB's, use of other "registries," and the ignorance of the public. Good article, thank you.
Although some my think that the work done by researchers like Dr. Strain will provide the "link" between blindness and deafness to the merle gene. I look at this with a different twist.
I AM SURE ALL INSIGHT IS WELCOME, ESPECIALLY FROM BREEDERS WHO HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE MERLE GENE.
Research may indeed, provide proof that the merle gene isn't the "link" but yet an outside MODIFIER like ones that attach to the SP/SW gene. 90 breeds and climbing have the congential defect with vision and hearing to date, I strongly believe that is the funding source... think about it...
IN LIGHT OF THE DOCUMENTED RESULTS OF BREEDING MERLE TO MERLE IN CATAHOULAS AND DACHSHUNDS AND SELDOM, IF EVER, GETTING BLIND/DEAF DOGS AS A RESULT, IT WOULD SEEM THAT THERE IS A GREAT DEAL MORE HERE AT WORK THAN THE MERLE GENE.
What are we breeding into our lines? How can we stop the spreading of the disorders and congential defects? Less than 20 breeds with the merle gene... Something else is causing the problem, numbers show that with no uncertain terms.
WHY, THEN, ARE THE COLLIE TYPE BREEDS MORE AFFECTED WHILE THE DOUBLE MERLES IN THE AFOREMENTIONED BREEDS ARE NOT? HEAVY PIGMENTATION? CURRENT DATA SHOWS THAT SINGLE MERLES HAVE A VERY LOW LIKLIHOOD OF DEAFNESS/BLINDNESS, THE CHI INCLUDED. THE SPREADING OF THESE DISORDERS CAN BE STOPPED WITH TESTING,IF ALL WOULD DO SO, BUT I AM AFRAID THAT IS WISHFUL THINKING. AND NOW IT IS AFFECTING THE "NORMAL" COLOURED DOGS, SO THAT ELLS US THAT MERLE IS NOT THE CULPRIT HERE AND OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS (MODIFIERS) NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.
And although years ago, it may have been common assumption to point blame on the merle gene, studies these days are pointing in another direction.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Hense I believe that is why Dr. Strain and others are funding the CATAHOULAS, and are a focus to the study's and why funding is available.. Why some may ask. Because it is a breed that breeds merle to merle in every breeding. Isolate the source in that breed and you will find the "beast" causing the problem.
DACHSHUNDS AS WELL DO MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS WITH SELDOM, IF ANY, INCIDENCE OF DEAFNESS.
One thing that will happen is someday they will find the modifier, I hope it is sooner than later.
IT STANDS TO REASON THAT THERE IS MORE AT WORK HERE THAN THE MERLE GENE.
But it has long been my belief, that it is not the merle gene at all. Why else would homozygous merles in certain breeds be uneffected? If merle was the cause it should yield a 100% outcome of vision and hearing problems. (When one looks at this picture from a medical and genetic viewpoint.)
IF THE MERLE GENE WAS THE CULPRIT, IT SHOULD AFFECT ALL MERLES IN ALL BREEDS ACROSS THE BOARD - NO EXCEPTIONS. BUT THE FACT THAT IS DOES NOT AFFECT ALL BREEDS THE SAME IS CERTAINLY WORTH FINDING OUT WHY.
I feel that is what some researchers are now thinking.
YOU ARE CORRECT IS ADDRESSING THE FACT THAT MODIFIERS MAY BE AFFECTING HOW THE MERLE GENE IS HANDLED IN DIFFERENT BREEDS AND RESEARCHERS ARE LOOKING HEAVILY IN THAT DIRECTION - AND THAT WILL TAKE TIME.
Again call me nuts if you want but I believe they will find the congential defect of blindness and deafness on a "modifier" that links up with a white spotting gene. Since White seems to have to be present somewhere on the dogs effected in the majority of cases, and the others effected are more than likely to be carrying the recessive state.
AMEN.
This research needs to be done, and quickly as it doesn't and isn't just happening in your chihuahuas it is documented in over 90 breeds and climbing. That is more than 50% of our recognized AKC breeds. This is a SERIOUS issue, not a self serving one. It is effecting the majority of breeders and breeds.
IT IS PRESENTLY BEING DONE BUT CAN'T BE DONE OVERNIGHT. IT IS A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE BUT AS LONG AS RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS ARE DOING ALL THE TESTING AVAILABLE, THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT BALLPARK. NOW - IF ONLY ALL BREEDERS WOULD AVAIL THEMSELVES OF THESE SERVICES!
And although I admittedly don't know the CATAHOULAS like I would like... Do they have white markings? That would support my thoughts even more if they don't have white markings or if the white markings never go more than "S" markings. Meaning no Irish markings or greater.
YES, THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN HAVE WHITE MARKINGS AND IRISH MARKINGS AS WELL, BUT FOR THE MOST PART ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED/MOTTLED/MERLED.
Some may say research is being done to prove merle as the problem, but others like me believe research will provide proof that merle is not the problem.
DR. STRAIN IS PRESENTLY WORKING ON THAT NOW SINCE THERE ARE THE BREEDS WHERE MERLING DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THE CULPRIT AT ALL.
We should support and test until the results are in. IMHO .
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IN YHO. NO POINT IN CUTTING OUT THE HEART OF THE BODY UNTIL ALL THE TEST RESULTS ARE IN. AS DR. STRAIN HAS CONTINUOUSLY POINTED OUT, COMPLETION OF STUDIES WILL TAKE TIME BUT BREEDERS HAVE GUIDLINES PRESENTLY IN PLACE TO HELP GUIDE THEM AS TO WHAT BREEDINGS TO DO/NOT DO. THE RESPONSIBLE ONES WILL TEST BEFORE ANY BREEDING - AND THE IRRESPONSIBLE ONES NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL, BUT THEY ARE IN ALL BREEDS. YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY OR CONTROL WHAT OTHERS DO. AND HE ALSO POINTS OUT THAT IT IS A WISE CHOICE TO NOT MAKE ANY DRASTIC CHANGES IN BREED STANDARDS UNTIL ALL THE FACTS ARE IN - DOING SO IN SUCH A HURRY IS AS BAD AS NOT MAKING ANY CHANGES AT ALL IF NEGATIVE FACTS DO SURFACE. DIFFICULT TO REVERSE CHANGES ARE NEVER PRUDENT, AS SOME WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT AND WILL CONTINUE TO DEFY THE PROOF BEFORE THEM.
Not DQ and eradicate on half known data. Reminds me of stories of "Witch Hunts". Jumping to conclusions... it is never a good resolve. What would the anti merle people do if they realized that their sp/sw dogs were the "WHOLE" source of the problem? WOULD they feel any remorse? OR EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY any GUILT?
FOR THE TIME BEING, IT SEEMS MORE PRUDENT FOR THE MERLES TO BE IDENTIFIED IN SOME WAY ON PAPERS OR HOWEVER - NO MERLE BREEDDERS SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, EVEN THO MERLE IS ON THE REGISTRATION AS A COLOUR CHOICE. OR EVEN DESIGNATE IT AS AN ANY OTHER COLOUR BREED (AOC)BREED TO BE SHOWN AS IN COLLIES & SHELTIES, AT LEAST UNTIL THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED. THE PATTERN WILL NEVER BE REMOVED FROM THE GENE POOL, SO WHY NOT GO FORWARD AND CONTINUE TESTING UNTIL PROOF IS CONCLUSIVE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? FOR NON-MERLE BREEDERS TO WANT THIS ISSUE HUNG IN MID-AIR IS IRRESPONSIBLE. YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD WANT TO KNOW ALL THEY CAN REGARDING THIS GENE AND NOT PLAY FOLLOW THE ILL-INFORMED LEADERS. AND IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THEIR SP/SW DOGS COULD BE THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM BECAUSE NONE OF THEM DO ANY TESTING. THEY COMPLAIN OF THE COST, THE TIME, THE YADA, YADA, YADA, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT IS A "DON'T ASK-DON'T TELL" ARRANGEMENT. IF YOU CAN'T SEE A PROBLEM, THERE IT MUSN'T BE THERE, RIGHT? TYPICAL BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND MENTALITY.....AND IF YOU BURY IT LONG ENOUGH, IT WILL GO AWAY.
YOUR COMMENTS ARE WELL THOUGHT OUT AND EXPRESSED. LET'S HOPE THAT MERLE BREEDERS HAVE THE TIME TO SEE THE RESULTS OF THE TESTING BEING DONE, FOR THE SAKE OF ALL CHI'S AND OTHER MERLE DOGS. mm
Originally posted by Lady Dane: A program like that here would almost have to be voluntary(like CHIC) due to the apathetic agenda of most BYB's, use of other "registries," and the ignorance of the public. Good article, thank you.
YOU ARE RIGHT IN THAT THIS IS A THOUGHT PROVOKING ARTICLE & IT WILL TAKE TIME BUT THOSE RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS WILL DO SO - AND THE BYB'S AND MILLERS WILL CONTINUE TO DO AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE - AND WE DON'T NEED TO GO THERE AS WE ALL KNOW THEY MORE THAN LIKELY WOULD NOT PARTCIPATE IN ANY TESTING. BUT SINCE THE AIM IS TO DQ THE MERLE FROM THE SHOW RING ONLY, WHAT GOOD WILL THAT DO? I MAINTAIN THAT IF THE ANTI-MERLE/CCA FOLKS REALLY CARED THEY WOULD HAVE ATTEMPTED TO DQ THE MERLE IN ALL PHASES - PERIOD. THAT INCLUDES NOT ALLOWIING THEM TO BE BRED, REGISTERED OR SHOWN. BUT THEY ONLY WANT THEM OUT OF THE SHOW RING - WHAT KIND OF SENSE DOES THAT MAKE? THEY CAN STILL BE BRED AND REGISTERED AND THE PHANTOMS CAN STILL BE SHOWN - SO JUST WHAT DOES THIS ACCOMPLISH???? SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY HALF-HEARTED, POORLY THOUGHT OUT EFFORT AS WELL. SO SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME - IF THERE IS AN EXPLANATION. MM
Thank you Tanya for your thoughts...however you are wasting your time on me. I read the same news and reports as the next person. And read the studies. I have formed my own independant thought on this matter.
I disagree, well with everything.
Except that merle is a modifier, which I already knew, I am speaking of a seperate modifier.
If merle to merle breedings don't yield blindness or deafness, in certain breeds, then it is NOT the merle modifier alone that is causing the problem.
And to say Ethical breeders don't breed for color in Chihuahuas. Well that statement alone makes one wonder. And it makes me wonder if it is the merle breeders doing a "CRAP SHOOT" or the ethical breeders on your side of the fence. In my breed I find it is ALWAYS the Ethical breeders that breed with color in mind. If you don't watch your colors and patterns then how on earth do you control your dilutes and excessive whites?
1.And solids without spots does not mean it is not a merle... 2.brindle is a pattern,
And I didn't mix any breeds,...nor would I ever dream of doing so,and there is no proof if someone did and when it happened, the gene is there, and has been for some time, in order to get purebred merle chis. I could write to a canine researcher and ask the question, how many generations does it take to get a purebred dog. I don't know this off the top of my head, but I do remember seeing an interesting article back in the 80's that addressed this. It seems it took 32 generations to get a purebred. I might be wrong. But I think I will write the canine genetics to ask, If I am right and don't have the number of dogs mixed up.. then that would be approx. 33 years of the merle gene in your gene pool. A lot of mixing going on there! And that is assuming that all dogs reproduced with average age of one year. Which would be fair to average that with the chihuahua breed. Now I am not saying that this is fact... I am making a statement that should be thought provoking, not factual, since none of us have the facts at this time.
And as much as you would like to hate someone in favor of all merles, you are free to do so. I won't stop you and really don't care. Eradication and DQing is not the answer when the gene has already been cycling for decades.Now is the time to address it professionally. All breeds all colors should test, and if you don't then I agree you are sticking ones head in the sand. And it is just a matter of time...
As I am free to disagree with you and "YOUR TAKE" on the merle gene... If the gene modifier was the problem it would case the problem every time you see it. Not here and there. This breed that breed.And in homozygous state, well you certainly would think defects would be present in each specimen. Another modifier is most likely attaching to the DNA strand.
Originally posted by Tanya: Dr Strain in this study is trying to prove there are parallels in deafness stemming from the merle gene, wonder why he seems to say something different for Chihuahuas?
BECAUSE THROUGHOUT HIS RESEARCH, THE GENE APPEARS TO MANIFEST ITSELF DIFFERENTLY IN DIFFERENT BREEDS - SOME HAVE A HIGHER % OF DEAFNESS AND BLINDNESS WHILE OTHERS, ESPECIALLY DOUBLE MERLES WHO ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED, AS IN THE CATAHOULAS & DACHSHUNDS, DO NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM. OF ALL THE MERLES DOGS IN HIS DATABASE THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED, THE CHIHUAHUA IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE FOR THESE PROBLEMS. THAT BEING SAID, IF THE MERLE CHI'S ARE SUCH A GENETIC DISASTER, WHY ARE THESE %'S SO LOW - MORE THAN 1% AND LESS THAN 2%? COLLIES & SHELTIES WOULD GIVE THEIR EYE TEETH TO HAVE THESE PERCENTAGES IN THEIR TESTING - FOR SOME AS YET UNEXPLAINED REASON, THE % OUTCOME IS HIGHER IN THE COLLIE-TYPE BREEDS, BUT AS DR. STRAIN POINTED OUT, IT IS UNKNOWN WHAT THE DETERMINANTS ARE THAT CAUSE THESE CONDITIONS. CONTINUED TESTING AND RESEARCH IS THE ANSWER.
Some lay breeders think and state merle is not the same in every breed but according to the Texas A&M study merle probably goes back before there were breed distinctions and that Collies, Shelties and Aussies it is identical. Since Aussies and shelties were probably used to bring the pattern to Chihuahuas along with Dachs, this just looks like a way to get more grant money for studies done with different bias attached. JMO
THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE IS "PROBABLY" AND IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE SO. THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT MERLE GOES BACK BEFORE BREED DISTINCTION AND IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE OF YOU TO SAY THAT THE MERLE CHI IS THE RESULT OF CHI'S BEING CROSSED WITH MERLE COLLIES, SHELTIES OR DACHSHUNDS AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE THE CASE. YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF THAT JUST AS THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THEY WEREN'T, SO LET'S NOT TWIST WORDS HERE.
Twisting words and stating baseless opinion as fact is Tanya and the other anti-merle bigots' forte. They have to do this because they HAVE NO PROOF.
Irresponsible? YES INDEED. And a whole lot of other adjectives that are none too flattering but are nonetheless accurate.
Bottom line: Caring, responsible Chihuahua breeders dedicated to a quality future for the breed will continue to test and screen their dogs and breed for health and soundness in addition to conformation and temperament. And they will do so in ANY COLOR - SOLID MARKED OR SPLASHED - as per the breed standard. It's really too bad these anti-merle bigots don't spend as much time and effort concerning themselves with REAL problems that exist within the breed as they do spreading false anti-merle MISinformation and attempting to penalize the merle breeders who are already "doing it right" - i.e. those testing and breeding for healthy, sound show quality merles.
Well like I said I didn't know, but I would write to a canine genetic specialist to find out, I don't cross breed, so I had no knowledge.
Just a distant article in the back of my mind while I was typing.
But I did find it very interesting that you knew exactly how many generations it takes, to go back to purebred state.
Again, I still don't agree and never will that merle gene is causing harm in the single state. And I do think they will someday find the modifier.
However I do think that pied to pied and excessive to excessives is causing harm. It can be seen in too many other breeds.
That is my opinion, and as years pass time will show who was right.
Remember the Dalmation, I believe they have the highest percentage, and have been referred to as extreme white piebalds.
Answer this how can you support pied to pied breeding, and excessive to excessive? And still feel good about it?
Are you pro SP/SP and SW/SW or do you campaign as hard against it too?
You really don't need answer this, I'm off to bed and a busy work week. And I am not typing this to change your opinion. Just typing to let you know I don't agree with your take on this subject.
Thanks for letting me know how many generations it takes to get a purebred dog. Although I really have no use for the information.
I am guessing then all those long coats will test 100% then.
Who was it who said Merle x Merle doesn't cause issues in certain breeds. Please list the breeds, I'm curious. Modifying factor right? Not all have to be blind or deaf, maybe the doubles die at birth, or shortly thereafter. I'm confused, breeding Merle x Merle is KNOWN to cause issues, why it is done in any breed, is beyond me as all those breeds have other colors to breed to. Or is there a breed that ONLY yields Merle?
Originally posted by Lady Dane: Who was it who said Merle x Merle doesn't cause issues in certain breeds. Please list the breeds, I'm curious. Modifying factor right? Not all have to be blind or deaf, maybe the doubles die at birth, or shortly thereafter. I'm confused, breeding Merle x Merle is KNOWN to cause issues, why it is done in any breed, is beyond me as all those breeds have other colors to breed to. Or is there a breed that ONLY yields Merle?
DR. STRAIN'S DATA BASE OF DOGS TESTED FOR HEARING/SIGHT DISORDERS MAINTAINS THAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY LONG-TIME BREEDERS OF CERTAIN BREEDS SUCH AS DACHSHUNDS AND CATAHOULAS THAT THEY SELDOM, IF EVER, GET BLIND/DEAF DOGS FROM MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS, WHILE THE COLLIE TYPE BREEDS DO HAVE SUCH OUTCOMES. THE DETERMINANTS THAT PRODUCE THE BLIND/DEAF DOGS ARE NOT KNOWN BUT IT IS THOUGHT THAT THE MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS IN THE DACHSHUNDS & CATAHOULAS DON'T PRODUCE BLIND/DEAF DOGS BECAUSE THEY ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED BREEDS.
My dear if all that is true then why ever is Dr Strain getting funding to find the "parallels to deafness" in merle Catahoulas? His tables in his study show that 62% of Catahoulas have some form of deafness.
Show me the Chihuahuas that have defects from this type of breeding. I have no idea what you mean by excessive, do you mean dogs that are breed too often?
Although I could show you graphic pictures of chihuahua breeding.. they are not my photos and have no consent to post, I don't do that; more like "YOUR" style to post someone else's pictures....besides just go look around in your Chihuahua rescue links
What I can do is refer you to the OFA website, where they have the CHIHUAHUA on the "HIT LIST"
Now I didn't add them to the list there, but look they are there... a universal site to check who tests and submits the results...and the findings. (I do realize alot of breeders test and don't submit,I myself don't always submit) and a site that is known for reputation as well!
Now the way I see it, you say the merle chis have been here since after 2000 I think I saw a post where you stated 2003 but I may be off a year or two. If your theory was right, it would hardly be enough time to warrant, the chihuahuas being added to the "HIT LIST" due to the merle gene... oops I know you need me to say merle modifier.
So why are they on the hit list?Tanya/Sirius?
Could it be they have another problem?
And Parallels in deafness between dogs and humans are also being conducted... the way the anti-merle people jump.... I wonder if they think that congential blindness and deafness in humans is linked to the merle gene? And for you Tanya/Sirius, I am being sarcastic here. Not technical... anyone can copy and paste.
What one sets out to prove in research, isn't always the results. Often they find a completely different answer.
As far as excessive and testing... well honestly the fact that you didn't know what I was saying... says it all.
Enough about this.... I'd rather look at pictures of George's dog!
Yes dear Astella, do look at photographs I'm sure that would be the best way for you to comprehend things. What you are writing here does not make a devil's bit of sense!
Originally posted by Lady Dane: Who was it who said Merle x Merle doesn't cause issues in certain breeds. Please list the breeds, I'm curious. Modifying factor right? Not all have to be blind or deaf, maybe the doubles die at birth, or shortly thereafter. I'm confused, breeding Merle x Merle is KNOWN to cause issues, why it is done in any breed, is beyond me as all those breeds have other colors to breed to. Or is there a breed that ONLY yields Merle?
DR. STRAIN'S DATA BASE OF DOGS TESTED FOR HEARING/SIGHT DISORDERS MAINTAINS THAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY LONG-TIME BREEDERS OF CERTAIN BREEDS SUCH AS DACHSHUNDS AND CATAHOULAS THAT THEY SELDOM, IF EVER, GET BLIND/DEAF DOGS FROM MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS, WHILE THE COLLIE TYPE BREEDS DO HAVE SUCH OUTCOMES. THE DETERMINANTS THAT PRODUCE THE BLIND/DEAF DOGS ARE NOT KNOWN BUT IT IS THOUGHT THAT THE MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS IN THE DACHSHUNDS & CATAHOULAS DON'T PRODUCE BLIND/DEAF DOGS BECAUSE THEY ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED BREEDS.
I MUST say something here. I myself have seen 4 double dapple dachshund pups with ranging from small to no eyes and all deaf. The owner/breeder didn't have the heart to put them down so gave them to the Care For Life rescue center my family help with. Which then where transferred to Dachshund rescue.
Originally posted by Lady Dane: Who was it who said Merle x Merle doesn't cause issues in certain breeds. Please list the breeds, I'm curious. Modifying factor right? Not all have to be blind or deaf, maybe the doubles die at birth, or shortly thereafter. I'm confused, breeding Merle x Merle is KNOWN to cause issues, why it is done in any breed, is beyond me as all those breeds have other colors to breed to. Or is there a breed that ONLY yields Merle?
DR. STRAIN'S DATA BASE OF DOGS TESTED FOR HEARING/SIGHT DISORDERS MAINTAINS THAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY LONG-TIME BREEDERS OF CERTAIN BREEDS SUCH AS DACHSHUNDS AND CATAHOULAS THAT THEY SELDOM, IF EVER, GET BLIND/DEAF DOGS FROM MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS, WHILE THE COLLIE TYPE BREEDS DO HAVE SUCH OUTCOMES. THE DETERMINANTS THAT PRODUCE THE BLIND/DEAF DOGS ARE NOT KNOWN BUT IT IS THOUGHT THAT THE MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS IN THE DACHSHUNDS & CATAHOULAS DON'T PRODUCE BLIND/DEAF DOGS BECAUSE THEY ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED BREEDS.
I MUST say something here. I myself have seen 4 double dapple dachshund pups with ranging from small to no eyes and all deaf. The owner/breeder didn't have the heart to put them down so gave them to the Care For Life rescue center my family help with. Which then where transferred to Dachshund rescue.
DR. STRAIN'S ARTICLE DOESN'T SAY THAT IT CAN'T HAPPEN - SIMPLY THAT ACCORDING TO THE BREEDERS (THESE ARE PROBABLY GREEDERS) WHO CONTINUE TO BREED MERLE TO MERLE, IT SELDOM HAPPENS AND MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SELDOM TIMES. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS WOULD NOT DO A MERLE TO MERLE BREEDING KNOWING THAT IT COULD POSSIBLY RESULT IN BLIND/DEAF DOGS, BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT MILLERS & BYB'S WILL DO FOR $ GAIN? AND I MUST SAY SOMETHING HERE TOO - YOUR OWNER/BREERDER DIDN'T "HAVE THE HEART" TO PUT THOSE PUPS DOWN - BUT APPARENTLY SHOWED NO CONCERN ABOUT DOING THAT BREEDING IN THE FIRST PLACE, KNOWING WHAT COULD RESULT????????? AND THEN HAD THE NERVE TO SHIFT THEM OFF ON THE RESCUE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH ALREADY?????????????? NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL AN IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON - I CAN HARDLY SAY BREEDER AS THAT IS A BREEDING THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IMHO - SO THE ONLY GOOD THING THAT CAME OF IT WAS MAYBE THE "BREEDER" LEARNED A LESSON AT THE EXPENSE OF THESE PUPS AND HOPEFULLY, WILL NEVER DO THAT (OR ANY OTHER BREEDING) AGAIN. MM
Originally posted by Lady Dane: Who was it who said Merle x Merle doesn't cause issues in certain breeds. Please list the breeds, I'm curious. Modifying factor right? Not all have to be blind or deaf, maybe the doubles die at birth, or shortly thereafter. I'm confused, breeding Merle x Merle is KNOWN to cause issues, why it is done in any breed, is beyond me as all those breeds have other colors to breed to. Or is there a breed that ONLY yields Merle?
DR. STRAIN'S DATA BASE OF DOGS TESTED FOR HEARING/SIGHT DISORDERS MAINTAINS THAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY LONG-TIME BREEDERS OF CERTAIN BREEDS SUCH AS DACHSHUNDS AND CATAHOULAS THAT THEY SELDOM, IF EVER, GET BLIND/DEAF DOGS FROM MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS, WHILE THE COLLIE TYPE BREEDS DO HAVE SUCH OUTCOMES. THE DETERMINANTS THAT PRODUCE THE BLIND/DEAF DOGS ARE NOT KNOWN BUT IT IS THOUGHT THAT THE MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS IN THE DACHSHUNDS & CATAHOULAS DON'T PRODUCE BLIND/DEAF DOGS BECAUSE THEY ARE HEAVILY PIGMENTED BREEDS.
I MUST say something here. I myself have seen 4 double dapple dachshund pups with ranging from small to no eyes and all deaf. The owner/breeder didn't have the heart to put them down so gave them to the Care For Life rescue center my family help with. Which then where transferred to Dachshund rescue.
DR. STRAIN'S ARTICLE DOESN'T SAY THAT IT CAN'T HAPPEN - SIMPLY THAT ACCORDING TO THE BREEDERS (THESE ARE PROBABLY GREEDERS) WHO CONTINUE TO BREED MERLE TO MERLE, IT SELDOM HAPPENS AND MAYBE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SELDOM TIMES. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS WOULD NOT DO A MERLE TO MERLE BREEDING KNOWING THAT IT COULD POSSIBLY RESULT IN BLIND/DEAF DOGS, BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT MILLERS & BYB'S WILL DO FOR $ GAIN? AND I MUST SAY SOMETHING HERE TOO - YOUR OWNER/BREERDER DIDN'T "HAVE THE HEART" TO PUT THOSE PUPS DOWN - BUT APPARENTLY SHOWED NO CONCERN ABOUT DOING THAT BREEDING IN THE FIRST PLACE, KNOWING WHAT COULD RESULT????????? AND THEN HAD THE NERVE TO SHIFT THEM OFF ON THE RESCUE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH ALREADY?????????????? NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL AN IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON - I CAN HARDLY SAY BREEDER AS THAT IS A BREEDING THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IMHO - SO THE ONLY GOOD THING THAT CAME OF IT WAS MAYBE THE "BREEDER" LEARNED A LESSON AT THE EXPENSE OF THESE PUPS AND HOPEFULLY, WILL NEVER DO THAT (OR ANY OTHER BREEDING) AGAIN. MM
They didn't know. The male was merle/dapple and the female, I think was called a wild boar?
It did NOT look dapple nor merle in ANYWAY. They where good loving folk.
They did not want to burden the center! they came to us to ask about placing "special needs" dogs since that is one of the things the center is known for. So we took them in. They were willing to keep them until placed but since the center does "special needs" placement it would be better to have them there and the family would only have to go though 1 heartache then 4 when each one left. This family loved these pups.
must also add that they have donated over $1500.00 to the Care for life center and the Dachshund rescue and work tirelessly to this day on fund raising and walk a thons. (the wife makes the best pound cake!)
Originally posted by Lady Dane: Who was it who said Merle x Merle doesn't cause issues in certain breeds. Please list the breeds, I'm curious. Modifying factor right? Not all have to be blind or deaf, maybe the doubles die at birth, or shortly thereafter. I'm confused, breeding Merle x Merle is KNOWN to cause issues, why it is done in any breed, is beyond me as all those breeds have other colors to breed to. Or is there a breed that ONLY yields Merle?
DR. STRAIN'S DATA BASE OF DOGS TESTED FOR HEARING/SIGHT DISORDERS MAINTAINS THAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY LONG-TIME BREEDERS OF CERTAIN BREEDS SUCH AS DACHSHUNDS AND CATAHOULAS THAT THEY SELDOM, IF EVER, GET BLIND/DEAF DOGS FROM MERLE TO MERLE BREEDINGS, WHILE THE COLLIE TYPE BREEDS DO HAVE SUCH OUTCOMES. THE DETERMINANT
