Fodder for thought!
This article plainly discusses crossbreeding to benefit a breed. I have aquired the link to place here as to not disrupt other threads that are nearly about this subject. While cross breeding can have benefits to breeds that have a limited gene pool {Chihuahua do not have a limited gene pool} I want to know how there can be a benefit adding merle to the Chihuahua breed aside from what some consider a pleasant color?

http://www.ashgi.org/articles/breeding_heresy.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
Fodder for thought!
This article plainly discusses crossbreeding to benefit a breed. I have aquired the link to place here as to not disrupt other threads that are nearly about this subject. While cross breeding can have benefits to breeds that have a limited gene pool {Chihuahua do not have a limited gene pool} I want to know how there can be a benefit adding merle to the Chihuahua breed aside from what some consider a pleasant color?

http://www.ashgi.org/articles/breeding_heresy.htm

IT COULD BE SAID THAT THE PATTERN COULD BENEFIT THE BREED BECAUSE OF THE AESTHETICS, PLAIN & SIMPLE - JUST AS FAWNS, SPOTTED ON WHITE & BRINDLES ARE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING TO SOME BUT NOT OTHERS. I ASSUME THAT YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE MERLE PATTERN WAS BROUGHT INTO THE BREED FROM AN OUTSIDE SOURCE SO NOW WE ARE BACK TO SQUARE ONE, WHERE YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT IT WAS AND, CONVERSELY, I CANNOT PROVE THAT IT WASN'T. REGARDLESS, IT WILL BE OF THE SAME BENEFIT AS THE FAWNS, SPOTTED ON WHITE, BRINDLES AND ALL OTHER COLOURS OR PATTERNS, WHICH IS PRIMARILY AESTHETIC IN NATURE. DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A "BENEFIT" IN ORDER TO HAVE A CERTAIN COLOUR OR PATTERN? WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF THE BRINDLE PATTERN WHICH IS NOT VERY COMMON? OF THE FAWN COLOUR? OF THE SPOTTED COLOURS? IF YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE MERLES SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER ASIDE FROM THE AESTHETIC VALUE, I'M AFRAID I DON'T SEE THAT THEY SHOULD BE MANDATED TO OFFER ANYTHING MORE TO THE FANCY THAN OTHER COLOURS DO. IT SIMPLY IS THE PATTERN THAT IT IS AND IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL PREFERENCE, AS ARE ALL THE OTHER COLOURS/PATTERNS. SINCE WE DO NOT KNOW POSITIVELY THAT ANY OUTCROSS WAS DONE - AND THAT IS USUALLY DONE TO IMPROVE SOMETHING IN A BREED - THEN HOW CAN ONE SPECULATE AS TO WHAT THE BENEFIT(S) OF THE OUTCROSS SHOULD BE? SEEMS TO ME TO BE A MOOT POINT. I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT CHI'S DO NOT HAVE A LIMITED GENE POOL AND THE ARTICLE IS A VERY INTERESTING ONE & I APPRECIATE YOU POSTING THE LINK. YES, IT IS FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR ALL BREEDS.
MM

No one out there can answer how merle will benefit the Chihuahua breed? Anyone? Well bugger I guess I will have to drift off to sleep...

I have not posted to this subject lately since I fell most know where I stand on it.

As I see it, Merle can't contribute anything to the breed that isn't all ready there expect two things. 1 a very pretty pattern and 2 health problems if not breed carefully.

I think that there is nothing as pretty then merle pattern but I also feel that there will be a lot of heartbreak if they become saturated in the chi gene pool. Either in the show lines or pet lines.

I have friends that I love dearly who have and breed merles. As long as they breed to black/tan I won’t say anything. But if they breed to fawns, creams, brindles and such. you can bet your sweet bippy I will.

If the CCA makes them DQ it can not keep them from being bred but most people who breed for show will not bred for it or want it in their lines. I mean who wants the pick pup to end up having a DQ?

I have brindles and good coated blues, deep chocolates and spotteds. I love the unusual colors. yes maybe brindles came from the Bostons and maybe the blues from yorkies. They are here and have been here long before I started in the breed. Maybe so with the merle as well. I don’t know and really don’t care if they where there since the dawn of the world. They are here now and so how do we protect the breed from the health problems that they will be bring in?
Sure Sure I understand don’t breed merle to merle (have known that for about 14 years now) but how are we going to deal with the cryptic/phantom/hidden merles?
I feel that it is best that both sides agree on getting a number or letter placed on the end of any chi reg # that MAY carry the merle gene no matter the color. Merle breeder could then view it as a badge of honor and a helpful tool to keep from breeding merle to merle and non-merle breeders and steer clear from it if they like.

Heath of the pet/breed should be our main concern plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
No one out there can answer how merle will benefit the Chihuahua breed? Anyone? Well bugger I guess I will have to drift off to sleep...

PRAY TELL, DON'T KEEP US IN SUSPENSE - DO SHARE YOUR TAKE ON HOW THE MERLE CAN BENEFIT THE BREED SINCE IT IS AND HAS BEEN AN ACCEPTED COLOUR AS WELL AS HOW ANY OTHER COLOUR OR PATTERNS BENEFIT IT, THAT IS, IF YOU CAN ROUSE YOURSELF FROM SLEEP LONG ENOUGH TO DO SO. I THINK WE ARE ALL WAITING WITH BAITED BREATH TO HEAR FROM YOU.
MM
MM

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
I want to know how there can be a benefit adding merle to the Chihuahua breed aside from what some consider a pleasant color?

Actually this question makes absolutely no sense and is yet another exercise in futility on your part Sirius because the fact is that merle is ALREADY IN THE BREED (with NO HARM to the breed proven to be associated with it) and so no one is ADDING it to the breed gene pool.

Poor Sirius ... you must be utterly exhausted from grasping at all those straws and continuously coming up empty handed - as well as empty headed!


Yes, do get some sleep now dear, maybe you'll make more sense tomorrow ... oh, okay, well, given your track record no, you won't, but at least you'll be well rested for more nonsensical anti-merle straw grasping!

Almost tea time so I thought I'd have a look at this, and just as I expected not one merle Chihuahua breeder can say how bringing this gene into the pool can benefit the breed. I don't believe any of them has ever answered this question, and if there is no benefit other than to someone's pocketbook or their egos I cannot understand anyone wanting this in the breed. The point of this thread was if one is to cross dogs there should be a benefit to the breed in some way and as anyone can see there is not a thing that merle adds except the expected defects and and of course extra cash to someone's coffers..

What benifit does any color bring to the table when working with a broad gene pool?

Your question is redundant.

Educate me.

Exactly right dear breeding for a color or a pattern as it were, brings no benefit to the breed so cross breeding to add merle to a breed where it did not exist is repugnant.

If merle existed in the breed as you lot claim why were they not in the show ring until the millennium? Makes absolutely no sense at all!

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
Exactly right dear breeding for a color or a pattern as it were, brings no benefit to the breed so cross breeding to add merle to a breed where it did not exist is repugnant.

If merle existed in the breed as you lot claim why were they not in the show ring until the millennium? Makes absolutely no sense at all!

Maybe for the same reason the Landseer, Parti-Poms, Lilac Persian and MANY others were not. Developement.

How do any of those "developments" benefit the breed?

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
Almost tea time so I thought I'd have a look at this, and just as I expected not one merle Chihuahua breeder can say how bringing this gene into the pool can benefit the breed. I don't believe any of them has ever answered this question, and if there is no benefit other than to someone's pocketbook or their egos I cannot understand anyone wanting this in the breed. The point of this thread was if one is to cross dogs there should be a benefit to the breed in some way and as anyone can see there is not a thing that merle adds except the expected defects and and of course extra cash to someone's coffers..

I THINK WE ALL GET YOUR POINT, BUT AGAIN, NO ONE CAN EITHER PROVE OR DISPROVE A CROSS IN THE BREED. AND IF YOU ARE TALKING DEFECTS, HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR DEFECTS IN THE BREED IN COLOURS THAT ARE NORMALLY ACCEPTED? LIKE THE CHI PUPS WITH NO FRONT LEGS? THEY ARE FAWN. OR THE 2 BLIND & DEAF NON-MERLE DOGS THAT WERE RESCUED BY A BREEDER ON ONE OF THE SHOW LISTS? THEY ARE FAWN & WHITE. SO WE KNOW THAT DEFECTS CAN OCCUR IN DOGS THAT AREN'T MERLES AS WELL AND THOSE ARE COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED DEFECTS, SO PERHAPS THAT IS WORSE THAN WHAT MIGHT BE EXPECTED IN THE VERY LOW % OF SINGLE MERLES PROBLEMS.
MM

And yet again a smokescreen and no answer to the question, how does adding merle to the Chihuahua gene pool benefit the Chihuahua as a breed?

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
And yet again a smokescreen and no answer to the question, how does adding merle to the Chihuahua gene pool benefit the Chihuahua as a breed?

WELL SIRIUS/TANYA.....THAT IS AN EASY ONE TO ANSWER. IT HAS BEEN THERE FOR WELL OVER 60 YEARS. PAT CLEARED UP THE BOOK MYSTERY. THE B/T PICTURED IN THE BOOK WAS A TIPPED EARED CHI GIVEN TO HER BY HER FRIENDS IN SWEDEN. HER FIRST CHIHUAHUA THAT SHE BOUGHT WAS THE ''MERLE'' SHE BOUGHT FROM ANNA VINYARD. SHE HAD HER CHOICE OF THE LITTER AND SHE PICKED THE ''UNUSUAL ONE''. THIS WAS THE LITTLE GREY BITCH WITH LITTLE BLACK DOTS ALL OVER THE GREY...1950....AN ''EYEWITNESS'' THAT MERLE WAS IN THE GENEPOOL WAAAAAY BACK THEN.
MAYBE YOU COULD HAVE A SEANCE AND TRY TO CONTACT ANNA VINYARD TO FIND OUT WHERE SHE GOT THE GENE.

quote:

Originally posted by Ratlady:

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius:
I want to know how there can be a benefit adding merle to the Chihuahua breed aside from what some consider a pleasant color?

Actually this question makes absolutely no sense and is yet another exercise in futility on your part Sirius because the fact is that merle is ALREADY IN THE BREED (with NO HARM to the breed proven to be associated with it) and so no one is ADDING it to the breed gene pool.

Poor Sirius ... you must be utterly exhausted from grasping at all those straws and continuously coming up empty handed - as well as empty headed!

Oh, I know the anti-merle bigots don't like to be bothered with a little thing like the facts but here they are anyway:

FACT: ALL SINGLE MERLE CHIHUAHUAS CERF & BAER TESTED HAVE PASSED - NOT ONE HAS HAD A PROBLEM WITH SIGHT OR HEARING! FACT: NO TEST RESULTS EXIST PROVING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A SINGLE COPY OF THE MERLE GENE AND HEALTH ISSUES IN THE CHIHUAHUA AND NO GENETIC EXPERT HAS PROVIDED ANY DATA PROVING ANY HARM TO THE BREED CAUSED BY A SINGLE COPY OF THE MERLE GENE!!