Hi all, I don't get serious to often but on this topic I have a question that I hope someone has some info on.

I am curious about hybred cats, namely a bob cat/Bangel mix. I understand there are people that actual breed this mix.

What I know so far is that first a Bangel {not sure if I am spelling this right} is really a mix between a basic tabby cat and some small wild cat such as bobcat, that Bangel is not a true breed of cat.

I should say what I know so far is more what I have heard as I really don't know the facts behind any of this.

I know someone that has a two year old hybred with the above mix of Bangel and Bobcat, that is what they were told by the breeder they bought the cat from. As time goes by they are running into alot of problems with the cat biting and tearing the house up. She has done some research most recently but hadn't before the bought the cat. Actually she didn't buy the cat herself her daughter did!

Anyways any info is helpful. I will add I am not looking for a cat, I have 5 already!

Thank you, I will check back tomorrow to read!

What is your question exactly?

Bengals are a hybrid of the Asian Leopard Cat and domestic shorthaired tabbies basically. The ALC is a wild animal, as is the Bobcat. At times it can be no different than having a fox, bear, tiger, or deer as a pet....unpredictable behavior can happen. I have lots of experience with Bengals as my grandmother used to breed/show them and I have owned/shown a few myself. A lot can depend on how many generations from the ALC the litter is. I don't know much about the Bobcat part. Do you mean the Pixiebob breed, or whatever they call it.

quote:

Originally posted by BorderCollie:
What is your question exactly?

Bengals are a hybrid of the Asian Leopard Cat and domestic shorthaired tabbies basically. The ALC is a wild animal, as is the Bobcat. At times it can be no different than having a fox, bear, tiger, or deer as a pet....unpredictable behavior can happen. I have lots of experience with Bengals as my grandmother used to breed/show them and I have owned/shown a few myself. A lot can depend on how many generations from the ALC the litter is. I don't know much about the Bobcat part. Do you mean the Pixiebob breed, or whatever they call it.

Hi thank you, the question is not so much a question but more a request for any information available on the breeds in question.

I mean the Bobcat as in the wild cats found outside.

My friends cat came from a breeder! He is 2 years old and is a mix between the Bengal and Bobcat.

She is having alot of issues with spraying, biting, tearing the house up. She was looking into medications to calm him down. But in what she is finding online she is thinking she will have to put him down. This thought is breaking her heart. I am hoping to find information that will help her so she can keep him.

Sorry I cannot come up with a specific question. Just general information about the cat in question!

quote:

Originally posted by myakkacity:

My friends cat came from a breeder! He is 2 years old and is a mix between the Bengal and Bobcat.

She is having alot of issues with spraying, biting, tearing the house up. She was looking into medications to calm him down. But in what she is finding online she is thinking she will have to put him down. This thought is breaking her heart. I am hoping to find information that will help her so she can keep him.

Sounds about right. This is what happens when a regular person tries to keep a wild animal. This is why, for hundreds of years, we have DOMESTICATED animals. One generation back to the wild and they are NO LONGER PETS. Hundreds of years to domesticate them...and it takes ONE generation to lose that.

The bengal breeders, from what I understand, have worked hard to get "the look" they want and the temperament that most people can enjoy. I believe most are now working several generations out from those wild cats, occasionally bringing one a bit closer to the wild cat in. They may not even be doing much of that anymore, and good on them if thats the case.

If someone actually crossed a bengal with a Bobcat, well, they are idiots for doing it, IMO, and then whoever buys one is also an idiot, IMO.

I cannot imagine why the world would need a biting, pissing, nasty, destructive animal. Medications don't change genetics. Wild animals and/or hybrids may even respond to medications differently than domestic animals.

I just hope she doesnt pawn her problem off on someone else, unless it is the breeder, who should take it back...have they been contacted? If not, that is the first thing that should have occurred when there were issues.

That cat, if it is truly a hybrid, likely needs a big outdoor enclosure with lots of room, climbing ability, and shelter. NOT in a house. If it is a true hybrid, it will never be "normal" in a house environment.

This is the exact reason I say, if you want the responsibility of a wild animal, get a wild animal. Not a hybrid. Hybrids are useless and sometimes more dangerous than wild animals as they can "fool" people, by looks or first impressions, that they are domestic, or will act domestic.

If you want a pet, get a pet...a domestic pet bred to be a companion for people.

*Off my soapbox now*

MsB

quote:

Originally posted by MsBehave:

quote:

Originally posted by myakkacity:
My friends cat came from a breeder! He is 2 years old and is a mix between the Bengal and Bobcat.
She is having alot of issues with spraying, biting, tearing the house up. She was looking into medications to calm him down. But in what she is finding online she is thinking she will have to put him down. This thought is breaking her heart. I am hoping to find information that will help her so she can keep him.

Sounds about right. This is what happens when a regular person tries to keep a wild animal. This is why, for hundreds of years, we have DOMESTICATED animals. One generation back to the wild and they are NO LONGER PETS. Hundreds of years to domesticate them...and it takes ONE generation to lose that.
The bengal breeders, from what I understand, have worked hard to get "the look" they want and the temperament that most people can enjoy. I believe most are now working several generations out from those wild cats, occasionally bringing one a bit closer to the wild cat in. They may not even be doing much of that anymore, and good on them if thats the case.
If someone actually crossed a bengal with a Bobcat, well, they are idiots for doing it, IMO, and then whoever buys one is also an idiot, IMO.
I cannot imagine why the world would need a biting, pissing, nasty, destructive animal. Medications don't change genetics. Wild animals and/or hybrids may even respond to medications differently than domestic animals.
I just hope she doesnt pawn her problem off on someone else, unless it is the breeder, who should take it back...have they been contacted? If not, that is the first thing that should have occurred when there were issues.
That cat, if it is truly a hybrid, likely needs a big outdoor enclosure with lots of room, climbing ability, and shelter. NOT in a house. If it is a true hybrid, it will never be "normal" in a house environment.
This is the exact reason I say, if you want the responsibility of a wild animal, get a wild animal. Not a hybrid. Hybrids are useless and sometimes more dangerous than wild animals as they can "fool" people, by looks or first impressions, that they are domestic, or will act domestic.
If you want a pet, get a pet...a domestic pet bred to be a companion for people.
*Off my soapbox now*
MsB

Good soap. If only the people it should be intended for would pay heed. But alas, these animals will likely continue to be cranked out for personal gain and without regard for those who buy them. Those who buy them get what they pay for. This poor animal will likely get dumped at a shelter or rescue of some sort for someone else other than the breeder to deal with it.

You asked Mya - you got the answers. Let us know what your pal does with the animal.

Shish!

MsB, I completely agree with what you are saying, but at the same time I think it is the breeders of these hybrid animals that should bear the brunt of the guilt, not the buyers.

These breeders KNOW what they are breeding and what is probably going to happen down the road. Unfortunately, the average pet buyer does not do the proper research before buying a pet..any pet. Not right, but it's just a fact. I seriously doubt the breeders of these animals are upfront with potential buyers. I mean why would they? That would cut into their profits majorly if they stood there and said, "Now I have to warn you. Probably in a couple of years this animal is going to be impossible to control; will piss all over your house; tear up your furniture; and probably bite the hell out of you and your kids and you'll either have to put it down or send it to a shelter.". Of course they don't.

They advertise them to make them sound as glamorous and exotic as possible so that the average Joe is like "oh wow! wouldn't it be cool to have one of those?" They don't think past their noses and then get suckered into buying something that is a disaster waiting to happen.

All the while, these breeders are sitting back laughing all the way to the bank.

The breeder KNOWS what these animals are capable of and where they will likely end up and they don't care. The buyers are just stupid but are not (in their minds) doing anything intentionally wrong..they just want a "cool pet"...whereas the breeders ARE doing something that is intentionally wrong.

And any breeder knows that no matter much you preach and preach to buyers about researching before you buy, 90 percent of them (buyers) don't and I doubt that's ever going to change.

When it comes to these types of animals, I just think that people are a bit too hard on the buyers and let the breeders skate by and I don't think that's right nor fair.

BC gave very accurate information.

I wouldn't call the owner an idiot, but certainly didn't do enough research and more probable than possible misrepresented by this so-called breeder.

Who in their right mind would cross Bengals with a Bobcat?! ONLY A PRODUCTION BREEDER. Hopefully, BC is right, and cross WAS with a domesticated Pixie Bob or Am. Bob. Still nothing more than "designer" breeding without regard.

I'm certainly no authority on Bengals, but I think the "real" breeders are painstakingly solidifying the F-3s for the show ring. One step forward, two back, to keep type / markings but more importantly working towards temperament / domestication.

Stunning animals.

The buyer of the animal was a 17 year old girl and her dad. The breeder talked the cat up to them! My friend ended up with the responsibilty of taking care of the cat, for the most part was not a problem until most recently.

Please don't call her an idiot of the kid for that matter, they were misled and unfortuneatly most people don't do alot of research into buying animals, I wish that were not the case but it is.

Personally I would like to find the breeder and smack her upside the head, however my friend did try to contact the breeder who seems to have disappeared.

My friend WILL not just dump the cat off, she cares alot for this cat. However she may have her put down if it becomes an issue of safty with her younger child and other animals.

Personally I don't think wild animals should be breed to anything but other wild animals of their own speices in the wild as nature dictates.

Thank you for any helpful advise, I will chose to ignore the meanness in some posts as I didn't ask for that! Helpful is all I am looking for right now.

My friend did contact a no kill shelter and that is where she got some good information concerning medicating, she was told it will NOT work! The No kill shelters will not take this type of cat! My friend is heart broken over this situation she doesn't know what to do and does not want to simply kill the animal! I wouldn't want to make this decision either it is a hard one.

quote:

Originally posted by MsBehave:

That cat, if it is truly a hybrid, likely needs a big outdoor enclosure with lots of room, climbing ability, and shelter. NOT in a house. If it is a true hybrid, it will never be "normal" in a house environment.
MsB

We have talked alot about building the outdoor enclosure, which is most likely what she will do in the long run. My friend is not one to put animals down but instead she is out to help them.

Yes she tried to contact the breeder when the issues first started, breeder is gone!

Thank you!

A lot of the time they make wonderful barn cats. Have your friend speuter the cat and look for someone needing a good outdoor mouser on a farm? I don't really have any other suggestions in that type of situation. A wild animal is a wild animal unfortunately. I have a Bengal mix right now, and she keeps rats/mice out of our yard, unfortunatley she also kills a ton of birds and moles, lizards, etc. She brought us a squirrel once, but I like to think she didn't actually catch it....

I think people, especially tender hearted people, tend to not realize that death, especially humane euthanasia, is not the worst thing for an animal. Animals dont think about death, they don't fear death. It is us silly humans who fear and think about death and who have guilt when faced with situations where euthanasia of a relatively healthy animal may actually be the best decision for the animal.

For craps sake, if a young child is involved, that infuriates me. NO ANIMAL is worth a childs face. Not for one second should this animal be exposed to a child.

And, if it is going to be kept alive, please, please, please make sure it is altered. Not only might this help its overall behavior,but it ensures THAT particular animal is not making more unsuitable "pets" for naive, impulse buyers who might want something "different".

JMO, of course.

MsB

I am not positive but I think she said the cat was fixed before they got them. I do know that the breeder had the cat declawed as a kitten! So becoming a barn cat would not work as this cat has no way to defend itself other then its teeth. I am not sure it would be able to catch rodents without front claws.

I know that she would never have gotten the cat on her own, but once her daughter brought the cat home as a kitten she feel in love with it, never know what would happen years later.

Yes there is a young child in the house along with another cat and a dog. She keeps the cat away from the other animals and is just recently keeping her child away from the cat also after she felt the cat was getting out of control with her.

Like I said she had no idea any of this would happen nor did she know about the breed! I know she will decided to do the right thing as her child is more important than any animal! She has a good sense of right and wrong!

Thank you all again for your input!

quote:

Originally posted by myakkacity:
I am not positive but I think she said the cat was fixed before they got them. I do know that the breeder had the cat declawed as a kitten! So becoming a barn cat would not work as this cat has no way to defend itself other then its teeth. I am not sure it would be able to catch rodents without front claws.

And here is the double edged sword. "Someone"("Hu", I'm not quite sure...lol) once told me, and I will never forget it, that many de-clawed cats turn to biting since they figure out clawing doesn't work. So, a de-clawed cat is MORE likely to bite, more likely to stop using the litter pan (they can associate the litter pan with pain when they use it after de-clawing). I did not have any idea about these things at the time...what, fifteen or more years ago, but as time went on, nearly every cat in the grooming shop w/o claws would bite the crap out of you, and the ones with were much less likely to do so...much easier to trim nails and work on a non-biting cat than to deal with a snapping, snarling nasty one!

I always thought you get a cat, you alter it and you de-claw it. Until "someone" ("Hu" will remain anonymous...ROFL)explained it to me. De-clawing is amputation of the first joint of a cats toes. And, after watching it done now many, many times, it horrifies me. Don't get me wrong, some cats NEED to have it done to keep their happy home...but I think people need to only do it on a case by case basis, not as a regular part of vetting their cat.

I know, mya, you had nothing to do with this scenario, so this is not aimed at you but just another soapbox I have climbed on...

It seems to me this animal was doomed to fail from the get go: doomed to fail as a pet in genetics and in life choices made for the animal. I do have to say I am so relieved to hear it is altered. CONSIDER HOW HORRID THE BEHAVIOR WOULD BE IF IT WASN'T...eeek!

I will step down, again, now.

MsB

I could never de-claw one of my cats, I understand some do and that is really not my place to comment on. My friend would have never de clawed this cat, as she is like me with that.

I never thought of the fact they would bite because they can't claw. It was always about their ability to climb and catch stuff for me oh and the defense thing. I do have to say thou my thunder kitty doesn't often use those front claws, he is more a back claw kinda guy. He loves to grab my arm if I rub his belly and kick me with those back paws. LOL I learned quickly not to touch the belly.

Well yet again I have learned something new, thank you all! I will let ya know what she decides to do! I am personally hoping she will create an outside enclosure for him.

I feel so sorry for that cat and the lady who has it. There are no good answers to this ! Cats can still catch rodents if they have been declawed but they can't escape from dogs (or anything else) because they can't climb. I really don't like the idea of declawing any cat but if it can keep it's home by being declawed I can understand that. Since this poor cat has already lost it's claws it needs protection etc. The crossing of any domestic animal with a wild animal is crazy.
No useful purpose is served by doing so. I'm a little strange I guess but no cat or dog should be expected to live entirely in a house. This cat deserves a good encloser (if she keeps it) where it has room to play etc. Horse fencing panels come to mind (the kind made of solid metal bars). The openings are 2x4 inches on the ones that I have seen. There are at least two heights and one of them is about $80. (forgot which one). In fact I can't remember how high either one is. Of course a full top will be needed. But they would be strong enough when supported by posts to make a functional pen.
Animals may try to dig in to the cat so that problem needs to be addressed. Fence buried deep or foundation of some kind down about 2 feet (minimum). I'm not a person who keeps cats so I don't know other requirements for kitties.
charly

quote:

Originally posted by myakkacity:
I could never de-claw one of my cats, I understand some do and that is really not my place to comment on. My friend would have never de clawed this cat, as she is like me with that.

I never thought of the fact they would bite because they can't claw. It was always about their ability to climb and catch stuff for me oh and the defense thing. I do have to say thou my thunder kitty doesn't often use those front claws, he is more a back claw kinda guy. He loves to grab my arm if I rub his belly and kick me with those back paws. LOL I learned quickly not to touch the belly.

Well yet again I have learned something new, thank you all! I will let ya know what she decides to do! I am personally hoping she will create an outside enclosure for him.

So.....does he / she have back claws? This posts makes me wonder? If so, the backs are actually the main use for climbing, defense, etc. The fronts are used for offense, pecking order, or capture of food. Surely if turned out, so to speak, it will not be allowed to go hungry and promote even more prey drive.

At any rate, good luck on containing it in an enclosure. It WILL get out. Might take a year or more, but it WILL.

I'd like to see photos of this animal to help determine if just a cat on the wild side, or a wild animal on the domesticated side. Either way, I feel this COULD be an unfortunate, prime example of a Lose-Lose situation for the cat and family

Was just going to say sort of what you did Hu. Cats CAN climb without front claws. Believe me!

I have 3 adult cats that came to me already declawed because it is not something I believe in either. I do have to say that I did have ONE cat of mine declawed but there were reasons for it that I won't go into at this moment...but...

They can climb very nicely without those front claws. Even if it's right up my leg to get at something I am eating at the moment..

This thread has so much information in just a few posts.
One thing explains my cats behavior. She is almost 8 and when she was a kitten yes I had her declawed . I didn't know at the time and got her spayed and declawed. But she bites and that just started a couple years ago. She bites when she doesn't want to be petted. She doesn't do it often and I thought it was just grumpiness but now I have to wonder. She also doesn't bite hard, just puts her teeth on your skin.
This thread brought back an experience I had a couple years ago. Where we moved from there was a rescue for wild animals and to help the support of these animals they gave very educational tours. It helped support them financially and helped educate the public. All the animals there were animals that were purchased by people as pets. When they could no longer care for them or confiscated they ended up at this sanctuary. It was something I will never forget.
Good luck to your friend Mya. I am sure it is a hard decision since she obviously loves the cat. If she didn't I am sure the decision of what to do would be easier. If she is unable to come up with a good solution maybe see if you have a sanctuary of some sort for wild animals in your area like the one I spoke of above. If not and you would like the name of the one I mentioned let me know. I know they get wild animals from all over the country.
Oh and yeah they can still climb without front claws. My cat although is not allowed outside at our previous house she would sometimes get out thank goodness she never left our yard. But when she was ready to come back in she didn't use the stairs on the deck she just climbed up the side. Silly cat!

Well, now that I have a few free minutes, let me explain why I had one of my cats declawed. From day one of bringing her into our home (at 12 wks of age) she was nicknamed the "resident bitch". She LOVED LOVED LOVED people, but hated any other cat that came within 6 feet of her and would attack them without any provocation.

And these attacks usually took place in the middle of the night while Bob and I were sleeping. Because she saw US as her "safe haven", she would attack and then run to us for safety. And because happened in the middle of the night, her and her nemesis (whoever it happened to be at the moment) would run across our bed (and our faces) while we were asleep.

I have a 3 inch scar on my face from one of her nightly escapes..and so does Bob.

Deep, DEEP scratches. Although we bitched and complained we dealt with it.

The straw that broke the camel's back was when Jordan was just 4 months old. He was sleeping on our bed when Sophie decided to "do her thing". She ran across his face trying to get away from her latest victim and to this day (he will be 8 next month) still has a scar across his nose from her.

Once this happened we decided to have her declawed. It was either that, or place her and we just could not do that.

So we had her declawed. She is STILL a bitch and STILL picks on everyone in the house, but at lease now she can't hurt anyone.

For reasons like that CK I believe cats need to be declawed. Some cats just NEED to be for the safety and sanity of the people in the house.