I came to this site looking for a very specific dog (ok, so I'm picky), and I didn't find it. My search will continue elsewhere. But as long as I'm here and you all seem to know a good deal about breeding, I'd like to ask a question.

In my search for the perfect dog, I came across an ad somewhere else for purebred puppies without papers. It turns out they have a registered female with full breeding rights, but bought their male without breeding rights, failed to have him neutered, and now have a litter of purebred puppies - who obviously can not be registered, as they don't have papers on their male.

I passed up the ad, as I'm pretty sure they are not the kind of people I want to buy from if they're breeding dogs without papers against the wishes of the original breeder. But it got me thinking about spay/neuter contracts.

What good are they? How can they be enforced? How many breeders actually follow up on these contracts? I know the local shelter also has spay/neuter contracts on all the animals they adopt out, but I personally know at least three people who adopted unaltered animals and either never had them fixed, or failed to return the proof to the shelter, and they never got a call or a letter or anything. Instead of a contract and hoping the new owner follows up, why not just have the puppy spayed/neutered before selling it?

Another question is about the breeders who have mandatory spay/neuter contracts on every puppy. I take that as a bad sign. Any breeder who is only breeding for pet quality puppies is not improving the breed, because their bloodlines are a dead-end. Am I wrong in assuming that these breeders are in it just for the money?

In the end, it really doesn't effect me in the least, as I'm looking for an adult who's already been altered. I would like to get other people's opinions on this though. Thanks!

quote:

What good are they? They are only as good as the buyer and seller are willing for it to be. How can they be enforced? by the court of law and a breeder keeping up with their puppies they sell How many breeders actually follow up on these contracts? Depending on the quality of breeder, quite a few. I know the local shelter also has spay/neuter contracts on all the animals they adopt out, but I personally know at least three people who adopted unaltered animals and either never had them fixed, or failed to return the proof to the shelter, and they never got a call or a letter or anything. shame on that shelter. Instead of a contract and hoping the new owner follows up, why not just have the puppy spayed/neutered before selling it? In some breeds its not fesable to to spay at 6 weeks.

spay at six weeks? What good breeder lets their puppies go before 8-12 weeks old? And I understand it being a problem with tiny breeds, but what about medium/large breed puppies who are already 2 pounds by 2-3 weeks old?

quote:

spay at six weeks? some vets recomend and push this time period What good breeder lets their puppies go before 8-12 weeks old? most breeders dont, but even in some breeds that age is still not a good age for spaying or neutering. And I understand it being a problem with tiny breeds, but what about medium/large breed puppies who are already 2 pounds by 2-3 weeks old?

Hi Punky,

Good for you for thinking about the ethics of the breeder you buy from. If more people did this there would be fewer puppy millers.

In regards to your contract question: there are a couple of ways breeders can encourage people to follow through with the contract. One way is to offer a cash back incentive when the procedure is done. Another is to have a thorough application process to include in-home visits before ever placing the a puppy. Asking for references, including vet references and any previous breeder references is helpful too. If the breeder you choose to go to does the above, they care about their dogs.

There is only one positive way to ensure that a dog is spayed or neutered and that is to have it done before the dog leaves. I have requested that a buyer have a neuter done by my own vet prior to the dog leaving my home. In this way I know that the vet is familiar with sighthounds, familiar with this dog in particular and truly cares about the dog's safety. Anxiety over having the procedure done, done safely and whether or not the new owner follows through is aleviated this way. I do not know of any other breeders who do this but it is standard practice with rescue organizations and shelters.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your search.

Connie

Best wishes for finding the dog of your dreams!

The national breed club is the best place to look for reputable breeders.

MP

Thank you for all of your input! I've kept my eye on Petfinder.org and haven't found exactly what I'm looking for yet. Like I said, I'm really picky. I know what I want and I'll keep looking until I find just the right dog.

Lester, I tried the link, but it seems that there are no matches for my state and breed of choice. I tried all three of the other options (all breed, specialty and limited). I will go look up the national club.

A question to the breeders... at what age do you retire your dogs from breeding? And do you place them in pet homes at that point? Have you noticed any behavioral differenced between a dog spayed/neutered before breeding age, and one spayed/neutered after a few litters?

Back to the original question re: spay/neuter contracts; how do buyers enforce contracts when they ship puppies across the US? I can understand if you sell a puppy to someone down the street, it would be easier (I would assume) to persue legal action if they failed to follow through. Wouldn't it be a lot of hoops to jump through to file suit against someone in another state? I'm very confused by it all. It seems to me like you could sink a lot of money on an inter-state lawsuit. I applaud those who do follow through. It's sad that people can't be trusted. What ever happened to people just taking responsibility for their half of the deal?

quote:

Back to the original question re: spay/neuter contracts; how do buyers enforce contracts when they ship puppies across the US? I can understand if you sell a puppy to someone down the street, it would be easier (I would assume) to persue legal action if they failed to follow through. Wouldn't it be a lot of hoops to jump through to file suit against someone in another state? I'm very confused by it all. It seems to me like you could sink a lot of money on an inter-state lawsuit. I applaud those who do follow through. It's sad that people can't be trusted. What ever happened to people just taking responsibility for their half of the deal?

I would assume they inforce the contract the same way they would if the puppy was here. If its a truely good breeder state lines mean nothing and they will do everything in their power to correct a situation.

The PetLaw website might have some good information. Best wishes for your future.

quote:

Originally posted by punky:
A question to the breeders... at what age do you retire your dogs from breeding? And do you place them in pet homes at that point? Have you noticed any behavioral differenced between a dog spayed/neutered before breeding age, and one spayed/neutered after a few litters?

I have spayed my girls after their final breeding. If you want to call that retiring them, I guess that will work. They "retire" to my couch I never place my girls or boys regardless of breeding them. They are my beloved companions until they take their last breath.

I have noticed no behavioral issues except a neutered male will be less likely to jump the fence in search of a girl in season. And the only physical change I have noted is in some spayed girls dripping when they get older. In that case I simply give hormone replacements and all is fine

quote:

Originally posted by punky:
Wouldn't it be a lot of hoops to jump through to file suit against someone in another state?

It would be worth every single hoop. I have seen it done and the breeder repossess their dog successfully .