Protestant groups dismayed at new document on identity of 'church'

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

ROME (CNS) -- Several Protestant organizations reacted with dismay to the Vatican's recent document on the identity of the church, but an Orthodox leader and a Swiss bishop said that by clarifying its position the Vatican actually is helping ecumenical dialogue.

The document from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, "Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church," was released July 10 at the Vatican.

It reaffirmed Catholic teaching that the Catholic Church is the one, true church of Christ, even if elements of truth and Christ's saving grace can be found in separated churches and communities.

The most ecumenically sensitive part of the new document was its assertion that while the term "sister church" can be used to refer to any of the Orthodox churches, a Christian community born out of the Protestant Reformation cannot be called "church" in the way Catholic theology defines the term.

The text said the Orthodox churches, although separated from the Catholic Church, have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they "lack something in their condition as particular churches" because they are not in union with the pope.

The Protestant communities, however, are not churches because they do not have apostolic succession -- the unbroken succession of bishops going back to St. Peter, it said.

The Rev. Setri Nyomi, general secretary of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, published an open letter July 10 addressed to Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

"An exclusivist claim that identifies the Roman Catholic Church as the one church of Jesus Christ ... goes against the spirit of our Christian calling toward oneness in Christ," Rev. Nyomi wrote. "It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogue with the Reformed family and other families of the church. It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity."

Rev. Nyomi also said, "For now, we are thankful that our calling to be part of the church of Jesus Christ is not dependent on the interpretation of the Vatican. It is a gift of God."

Thomas Wipf, president of the Community of Protestant Churches in Europe, said the original characteristics of the church of Christ are preaching the Gospel and administering the sacraments.

"That -- and no more -- is needed to be able to be seen as an authentic expression of the one church of Christ," he said.

"The Gospel, and not apostolic succession in the sacrament of ordination, constitutes the church," he said. "We recognize the Roman Catholic Church as a church. It is and remains regrettable that this is not made possible the other way around."

At the same time, Wipf said that making explicit the fact that the document represents the Roman Catholic understanding of "church" could lead to greater clarity in ecumenical dialogue.

Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, head of the Russian Orthodox office for ecumenical dialogue, told the Interfax news agency that the July 10 document "is an honest statement. It is much better than the so-called 'church diplomacy.' It shows how close or, on the contrary, how divided we are."

In a brief statement Georges Lemopoulos, deputy general secretary of the World Council of Churches, quoted a statement approved by the WCC 2006 general assembly: "Each church is the church catholic and not simply a part of it. Each church is the church catholic, but not the whole of it. Each church fulfills its catholicity when it is in communion with the other churches."

While he said an honest sharing of differences is necessary in dialogue, "the World Council of Churches affirms the importance of 'genuine' ecumenical dialogue and of 'common' Christian witness on the problems facing the world today."

In a long theological reflection on the document, Catholic Bishop Kurt Koch of Basel, president of the Swiss bishops' conference, said he understood how the document could be confusing or even hurtful to Protestants and to Catholics who usually refer to the Protestant communities as churches.

The new Vatican document, he said, is looking at the term in a "strictly theological" way, explaining that if the Catholic Church believes apostolic succession and valid sacraments, particularly the Eucharist, are essential aspects of the church established by Christ it cannot recognize as "church" those communities who do not have them.

Bishop Koch also said the document and reactions to it underline a clear difference in the Catholic and Orthodox ecumenical goal and the ecumenical goal of the Protestants.

The Catholic and Orthodox churches, he said, aspire to full, visible unity, while the Protestant communities work for mutual recognition of the multiplicity and diversity of churches, "even with their possible contradictions."

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703953.htm

See this is the problem we have... evil must always be dominant, now we have Catholics and Islam fighting for world power.

And people wonder why those towers were a target.

It's a big game of Chess with innocent people's lives to start war to rule this world. JMO.

Al Quada is the right wing of the Masonic order. Who's the Left?

Why 'must' evil dominate? I cant agree with that as my experince has shown me that all beings desire unconditional love and acceptance above all else.

Most people do want unconditional love, the Holy Bible is all about faith, hope and love; some people don't ever have the chance to have faith, hope or love.. even in their religion.
Unless of course Religion is a made up theory and able to change as we go for convience.... hummmm ... or the Mother Church deliberatly wants to ruin it's self knowing secrets don't last as secrets as people get wiser to their beliefs and the word of God, or maybe the MC wants to see just how strong America is as a Protestant Nation, and wants to wage war between the first beast and the second. Who knows.
Now we have Islam banking they can distroy all in it's path to control the world with Islam.
Only they don't believe in unconditional love till all infadels or (kaffer) are killed or they convert through submission.

Jesus Christ spoke of his blood.
Mohammed spoke of YOUR blood.
BIG difference if you ask me.

That's why America is soo looked down on in the world, because we shed OUR blood for freedom of religion, or freedom for strangers, or freedom to keep America standing alone as One Nation Under God. We are the greatest Nation because of our beliefs. It's pissing people off in this day and age. JMO.

We are a Nation that loves Christmas, that's the birth of the lamb, Jesus Christ.
... and he spoke of his blood like America did for independence, Bill of Rights, and of course the United States Constitution and we did for all religions to live in peace in the land of the free. Some religions can not live in peace without dominance of all.

Back in the day, the Pope didn't think we could do it.. but we did proudly.
Now he wants to spark another war with the American people, and the British are right beside him with Al Quada on the right wing. JMO.

Your words are caused me to pause Radical, *bowing gently* thankyou. I liked this article I came acrossed this morning and thought you may as well. I tend to believe extreemists are controlled by those seeking to enrich their wallets, and have heard tales of men being paid large sums of money to suicide bomb others in areas where the people are so poor many boys/men would gladly hand over their lives for a sum they know will support their families for many years at the level they currently live at without fear of starvation. This is horribly sad, but love will make a man do things he would otherwise never consider.

BOULDER, Colo., July 11 (UPI) -- A small U.S. religious group Wednesday panned Pope Benedict XVI's proclamation of Roman Catholicism as the only true path to salvation.

"There are many paths to God, and god denies no one who takes a path with humility and sincerity," said Steve Farrell, worldwide coordinating director for the Humanity's Team organizaiton in Boulder, Colo.

"No one's way is better than any other's. It is merely another way."

The group called on all faiths and non-religious groups to affirm it's view that all paths lead to God.

"Humanity's divisions are the root cause of violence, war and terror in the world," said Farrell, whose group claims 15,000 supporters in 90 countries.

"Prophets, messengers, saints and sages have affirmed just the opposite message, that we are all one and that our salvation is assured through a God that loves us unconditionally."

The Vatican Tuesday issued a document approved by the pope and reaffirming that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church.

Copyright 2007 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=U...-bc-us-onechurch.xml

As for the whole Catholic vs. Protestant conflict,who is a "true" Christian, I think that both were simply used as political tools, therefore pitting one against the other. Like in Northern Ireland; if Protestants and Catholics didn't have two totally different theories on how their country should be run, would they actually have any problems with each other? I don't think so.
Catholicism has always been a powerful tool for monarchies, especially absolute monarchies. They have both been manipulated by politicans and governments. If this hadn't happened, I don't think that Protestants and Catholics would have any serious problems. Of course, there would exist theological differences. If Catholics and Protestants hadn't been told that they were mortal enemies of each other, then there is no reason to think that they ever would have become such on their own.

I got nothing against Catholics but i just don't like the fact that they pray to the pope. He is only a man and he is treated like a god.

For Biblical Protestants, the authority is the Word of God.

In the Catholic church the altar is the authority.

The great majority of the differences between Bible believing Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church do not come from different interpretations of the Bible or different Bibles, but from a difference in what is the "final authority". The Bible must be interpreted in the light of the Bible itself and neither twisted nor set aside to honor the pronouncement of Popes, Councils, or Tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15; 3:6).

Thomas Henze has a book out Protestant and Roman Apologetics and Theology, he speaks well of this conflict.

JMO.

quote:

The great majority of the differences between Bible believing Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church do not come from different interpretations of the Bible or different Bibles, but from a difference in what is the "final authority".

Agreed, and you hit a nerve with that statement. If you go back even further, when Rome adopted Christianity as its national religion to use as a tool to control its population, that the 'beast' predicted in revelations appeared. But Rome never really died at all did it?

Those in power have, unknowingly, led humanity to the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, the Akashic Records. These are not physical things, objects to be found. They are the quest to find sacred knowledge, the keys that will unlock the truth about reality - who are you? why are you here? what is your soul's purpose?

The Hall of Records is opened to Humanity..... and its physically invisible untouchable unstoppable doors thrown wide for mankind to find TRUTH , freeing us from the historical slavery of Monarchy. But each of us must choose to 'enlighten' ourselves with the knowlege it contains using the spiritual dicernment God has blessed each soul and mind with.

Radical, I apologize if I came acrossed as judgemental during our earlier conversation. My ego caused me to believe you were sleeping, but I see now your as aware as I.

Yep, She's called "the mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth" Revelation 17:5
It's not only a church, it's a Mother Church. A world Power.

Interesting huh?

"and I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the Saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus, and when I saw her I wondered with great admiration" Revelations 17:6
It kills the Saints?

Why would our Heavenly Father talk this way about a church, of all things, and expose it to the whole world?