Thats how I will start this thread,, and while I will admit I do not believe in such a thing as "evil" because my understanding is its all relative (what you call it) but I would be interested in what others feel about the matter.

http://www.geocities.com/hptaddict/Munchkins.html

quote:

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Originally posted by Patches:
Thats how I will start this thread,, and while I will admit I do not believe in such a thing as "evil" because my understanding is its all relative (what you call it) but I would be interested in what others feel about the matter.

http://www.geocities.com/hptaddict/Munchkins.html

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Evil:
Evil is the opposite of good. It is of the devil. Everything which is fostered, inspired, and spread forth by the power of the Evil One is in its nature evil. Accordingly, evil is that which is morally corrupt, wicked, and bad; which neither edifies nor enlightens; which chooses darkness and secrecy to cover its doings; which is destructive of faith, good morals, and godly virtues; which is in opposition to all righteousness; which leads away from God and from salvation. Evil is sin, transgression, unrighteousness, wickedness.


Good:
Good is the opposite of evil. It is of God and consists in obedience to his laws and conformity to his mind and will. That is good which is edifying, enlightening, and uplifting; which furthers the cause of liberty and truth; which speeds the spread of revealed truth to the peoples of the world; which leads to the acquirement of faith, hope, charity, love, and all godly virtues; which is harmonious with the moral order of the universe; which guides men to keep the commandments of God, to grow in grace, and to work out their salvation. The opposites of all these things are evil.

Rose please re-read your bible , particularly the first books. God is all there is, that which you call good and that which you call "evil".

(Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

GOD is Good and the Devil is evil

Satan was created by God though,, and its not that cut and dry. I welcome you to please read these verses regarding "evil" acts committed by the biblical god you believe in.

EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows: to show that he is Lord;to show that there is none like him in all the earth;to show his great power; to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children; to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.

NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."

JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

JG 9:53-54 "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died."

JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

1SA 4:10 The Philistines slay 30,000 Israelite foot soldiers.

1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.

1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

2SA 2:23 Abner kills Asahel.

2SA 3:30 Joab and Abishai kill Abner.

2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David.

2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

2SA 6:2-23 Because she rebuked him for having exposed himself, Michal (David's wife) was barren throughout her life.

2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

2SA 13:1-15 Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her.

2SA 13:28-29 Absalom has Amnon murdered.

2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

2SA 18:15 Joab's men murder Absalom.

2SA 20:10-12 Joab's men murder Amasa and leave him "... wallowing in his own blood in the highway. And anyone who came by, seeing him, stopped."

2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

1KI 2:24-25 Solomon has Adonijah murdered.

1KI 2:29-34 Solomon has Joab murdered.

1KI 2:46 Solomon has Shime-i murdered.

1KI 13:15-24 A man is killed by a lion for eating bread and drinking water in a place where the Lord had previously told him not to. This is in spite of the fact that the man had subsequently been lied to by a prophet who told the man that an angel of the Lord said that it would be alright to eat and drink there.

1KI 20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KI 5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

2KI 6:18-19 The Lord answers Elisha's prayer and strikes the Syrians with blindness. Elisha tricks the blind Syrians and leads them to Samaria.

2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KI 9:24 Jehu tricks and murders Joram.

2KI 9:27 Jehu has Ahaziah killed.

2KI 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KI 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KI 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

2KI 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KI 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KI 11:1 Athaliah destroys all the royal family.

2KI 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KI 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

1CH 20:3 (KJV) "And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes."

2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CH 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

JE 16:4 "They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth."

LA 4:9-10 "Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. ... pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food ..."

EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of fami

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mother Tiger:
Satan was created by God though,, and its not that cut and dry. I welcome you to please read these verses regarding "evil" acts committed by the biblical god you believe in.

Jennifer,
And the point you are trying to make with your long long list of scriptures trying to insinuate that God is evil?
( Which I deleted)

I for one don't argue with crazy people.
This board already knows how you feel about the Christian God. You made that very clear several months ago with your remarks of hate toward our God.

Only a lunatic would try to tell someone God is evil. Those of us who know and love God, do so, and those who don't? Well do you feel lucky?

Try to find a little sunshine and happiness in your life will you? Better yet, try to do that without God in your life. There is little, if no happiness without God in your life. As soon as you figure that out, you will be on the right path.

Just who are you going to call when no one else is there? You may turn your back on God, but he will never turn his back on you.

Insinuating? Im insinuating nothing ,, I am quoting your bible Rose, nothing more nothing less. Cant come up with a logical response so reducing yourself to changing the subject hu? Okay, its your religion and your issues that YOU must deal with not me. Everyday is wonderful in my world, because I unlike you do not have to question my own salvation moment by moment and I do not deal with being fearful of YOUR idea of "god" which would appear according to the book you choose to worship, more like satan than like a savior yes. Take care rose ,,

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for one don't argue with crazy people.

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Forgot to mention, Crazy people believe in teaching small children its alright to hate what they dont understand because some being says its the only way they wont burn for all time in some hell they created in order to convince themselves they can control thier children with fear when they arent around to do the controlling themselves.

Clearly our ideas on what "crazy" consists of does not correlate.

Lmao Linda Sharp, your a real gem ya know that? Since you think you know so much about the bible and jesus and satan and all that,, please explain a few of these contradictions for us would you? Just pick a couple you ,like best.

Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

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Mabey this one ,, I find it interesting

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)

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Or mabey this one suits you better,,

Judging
1 Cor 3:15 " The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)
1 Cor 4:5 " Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

I will open up a can of worms and ask - what makes anyone believe that the Bible is what is says it is and not just some book that someone made up at one point in time? All you have are people telling you what other people have told them and so on. There are many religions who do not believe in this book. They believe in their religion as much as Christains believe in theirs. What makes one right or one wrong? Does it really matter who believes in what as long as what you believe in is good and peaceful and gives you a feeling of well being? I believe in a Supreme Being but not necessarily what others preceive it as being. I do not believe in Satan and I don't believe hell exists. I do believe their are evil people in this world though. I also do not believe church is a requirement for Faith.

Jennifer why should I explain the bible to you it is a waste of my time. due to the fact you are a LIAR and a lost soul. and you will never change even the bible states that if a person trys to tell someone about jesus and if they shun< sp you off dust off you clothes and move on

No linda, you just dont understand the very book your trying to use now as a final last ditch effort to convince somone, even if its JUST Rose that your somehow right and Im wrong. Its sick , sad and PATHETIC.

And one more thing Id like to share with you Linda Sharp.... a few things about GOD you seem to have missed in your bible,,

1 Jn.4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

2 Tim.1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

And how many sons and daughters does god have,,,,

Gen.6:2
"The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair."

Job 1:6
"The sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them."

Job 38:6-7
"Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Mother Tiger, all of the verses that you mentioned are in the Old Testament. I used to have a terrible time reading the OT - I didn't recognise the same God in the New Testament. I asked my Pastor about it. We didn't have Christ in the OT - although there are alot of references to him and the coming of him in the OT. God was angry that people were running wild and loose and worshipping false idols, ect. As far as the Bible goes - to worship the Bible, a Cross, a rosary, ect. - that is a sin. I would love to see the Shroud Of Turin in person (they bring it out rarely), but maybe it is a good thing I have never seen it - I might be very tempted to look at it in a more "idolistic" way because it is the grave clothes of the Lord. The Bible is the Word Of God, but it is not ment to be worshipped. I think it's awesome that you brought up so many of those scripture verses - you recognised God's anger for what it was - that's what you're meant to do. If you read the NT you will see a difference in God because of the advent of Christ.

No linda, you just dont understand the very book your trying to use now as a final last ditch effort to convince somone, even if its JUST Rose that your somehow right and Im wrong. Its sick , sad and PATHETIC. {MY ANSWER} If you say there is no God you ARE wrong Jennifer! You just did not appear from the clear blue sky.
And one more thing Id like to share with you Linda Sharp.... a few things about GOD you seem to have missed in your bible,, {MY ANSWER}Jennifer GOD is Like our Parent he allows us to do things to learn but he also punishes us for doing wrong or when we refuse to listen to his warning. As any Good parent would do! GOD does not enjoy punishing us but how are we to learn good from bad if we are not corrected? No it is PATHETIC that you think that Rose or I are sick because we believe in a one TRUE GOD! I do not worship the cross or the bible I know they are a part of my beliefs. I feel sorry for you no matter what people say you will always have a closed heart & a lost soul.

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Jennifer GOD is Like our Parent he allows us to do things to learn but he also punishes us for doing wrong or when we refuse to listen to his warning. As any Good parent would do!

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Okay I understand what you believe, its a long traditional belief system so its understandable that you would choose it. But now I have a question for you, if you choose to reply.

I am a parent. I have told my children, "do NOT climb the stairs or I will paddle your backside and even though your incapable of understanding WHY you shouldnt climb those stairs, you better not or I will throw you out of my house, even though your only five years old".

Does this sound like a "reasonable" punshiment? Perhaps not, but if as a parent its your right to decide this is appropriate okay lets say we use it to try and keep our beloved child off the steps so they dont get hurt.

But irregardless of the threat our child one day decides to ignore us and climbs up them anyways. Half way up the steps , our child falls down
down
down
down,,,,,

The child has injured his/her self pretty badly and cries is hurt.,,,, now as a "reasonable" parent we are going to stick to our threat and throw our five year old out of the house and into the cold streets right?

Even a human parent knows this is unreasonable and cruel, but this is what you believe the nature of God is like? God makes threats to his children of all the awful punhishments that will follow should they do somthing that he has forwarned them not to do, and even though lets say our big brother (jesus) stepped in and absolved us of the guilt,, we can clearly still be thrown out of the house if we do not let Jesus take the punishment for us,, and if Jesus can do that and God lets him, what was the point of the threats to start with?

Why not just tell them the truth from the start and say hey, go ahead and climb the stairs because anything you do is alright, Jesus will get the blame and you can go about your business like nothing happened. THAT is why christianity catches so much anger , because most followers of it live thier lives this way. They treat others however they want, no matter how vicious, and because they have this "get out of jail free" card , act like its "alright", they are special and allowed to treat everyone awful.

bump,, still waiting on a logical alternative response here.

My answer Jennifer first off you either put up a gate up so they do not climb the stairs & you follow through with paddling their backside if you catch them climbing the stair and why would you not be around to see you child try to climb where are you ? this to me is neglect As I said before you do not believe in God so you could not understand why god allowed his son to do what jesus did and once again I will not discuss this with you because all you will do is poke fun at the answer

quote:

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My answer Jennifer first off you either put up a gate up so they do not climb the stairs & you follow through with paddling their backside if you catch them climbing the stair and why would you not be around to see you child try to climb where are you ?

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Okay linda,, lets now say that GOD is the parent,, instead of me. Wheres your gate to keep you away from having your tubes tied,, if it meant you would burn in hell for all eternity for doing so? The bible right? Except what if you dont believe in THAT part,, because you believe this Jesus guy saved you from your parent, GOD's anger. So would you climb those stairs anyways, or tie your tubes anyways? Gee no wonder you dont take responsiblity for how you treat others. After all, you have a fall guy, Jesus.

jennifer you are stupid as I said God will not throw me in a lake of fire just because I had my tubes tide.... you know I sit there and wonder why you even allowed on the forum . Jennifer really you make me

jennifer Jesus the Son of God took our sins upon himself because our sins where to great to be forgiven by ourselves. I don't use jesus as a fall guy as you put it I excepted jesus into my life and ask him forgiveness every day and I know I do fall short from Gods graces but I know he is a forgiven & loving God ... But I am afraid you will never understand that due to the fact you don't comphend < sp Gods TRUE LOVE AS I DO